Thursday, May 19, 2011

In Wisconsin today, Democracy died

The scum in Wisconsin's Senate chamber killed democracy today by voting for the controversial voter ID bill. The good people of Wisconsin are outraged, Democrats are outraged, and the fucking Nazi's in Wisconsin are on the march. They know their days are numbered so they are passing every measure they can to insure the voters of Wisconsin are tilted in their favor. This is fascism at it's finest, it's beyond despicable...

You can not tell me there is voter fraud to the extent a state has to pass legislation that suppresses voters, and make NO MISTAKE about it, these voters are usually Democrat supporters! The elderly, the students, minorities and the disabled will be affected. This gives WI the most restricted voter ID law in the whole country, Hmmm, wonder why? WALKER and his cronies, that's why.....This has nothing to do with fear of voter fraud, NOTHING!! Thank god the good sane people of Wisconsin are working their butts off to oust these M Effers as soon as legally possible. Wisconsin has terrific citizens who are fighting every day!

 Nazi Walker says his state is BROKE, but what does he concentrate on?? Voter fraud.... this will cost the state more than 5.7 million just to implement. That makes alot of sense. The measure would require voters to use photo ID such as a driver's license, state ID, military ID, passport, naturalization papers or tribal ID at the polls.
Walker said if you need a photo ID to buy cold medicine then it's reasonable to require it for voting....
 Sen. Frank Lasee, R-DePere, defended the proposal on the Senate floor, saying that people need photo IDs for a slew of other things, such as buying liquor or cigarettes.  Now I don't know about your state but I never heard of needing a photo ID to buy cold medicine, beer or cigarettes! Just trying to justify a fascist regime move....
Better start counting your days in office Walker, it's all gonna come to an end, the sooner the better.....

"This is a shameful day," Sen. Bob Jauch, D-Poplar, said. "It is the day that democracy died."

88 comments:

okjimm said...

of course the really nifty thing... is the new Voter Suppression Law is expected to cost $5.7 M to implement.... of course... it is about balancing the budget

The same Legislature also wants to pass a Concealed Carry gun law...
Why do the leaders of our state insist on making it more difficult to vote while making it easier to carry a weapon? Why do you have to show a photo ID to vote when, under one of the concealed-carry proposals, you can apply for a license by mail without proof of identification?
see ... it's all about balancing the budget.

Anonymous said...

I was in Memphis last week and, at age 57, had to show a picture ID to buy a pack of cigarettes. I have to show one to withdraw money from the bank or cash a check, to rent a car, to apply for a loan, to get a marriage license, to get a pasport, to get just about anywhere or anything today. How is the req. to do so to identify myself as a legal voter LESS important?

Sue said...

anonymous that doesn't seem to be the norm around the country. Not in my state does a person have to show picture ID to buy cigarettes, I hate to call you a liar but I find that really far fetched! I have NEVER had to show a picture ID to cash a check, withdraw money, get a loan or marriage license, I'm finding your comment bordering on ridiculous!

What is happening in WI with Walker and his ilk has nothing to do with fear of voter fraud.

Sue said...

Jim I pity you having to live in that state, I don't know if I could do it.

Once I applied for an absentee ballot, in fact now that I'm thinking about it I actually registered to vote through the mail. I DID NOT have to have a picture ID!

What these fascist governors are doing is beyond belief.

Sue said...

I just found this on Facebook. Copy, paste it and pass it around. Won't those thugs be shocked when the masses come out to vote Dem when they expected them to roll over and take their fascist shit!!


Obtaining an identification (ID) card

Any Wisconsin resident who does not hold a valid photo license from Wisconsin or another jurisdiction may request a photo ID. There is no age limit to apply for an ID card. When applying, it will be necessary to provide:

* Proof of name and date of birth, for example, a certified U.S. birth certificate, valid passport or certificate of naturalization.
* Proof of identity (usually a document with a signature or photo).
* Proof of Wisconsin residency.
* Proof of U.S. citizenship, legal permanent resident status, legal conditional resident status or legal temporary visitor status.
* Your social security number.

More about Wisconsin ID cards:

* Cost for original or renewal of Wisconsin ID cards. Original ID cards are mailed to applicants 18 years old or older.
* Cost for duplicate ID cards.
* ID cards can be obtained at any DMV Service Center. DMV service centers accept cash or checks only.

If you have questions:

* E-mail: driverrecords.dmv@dot.wi.gov
* Call: (608) 266-2353

If the evangelicals can fill up the buses to vote for the thugs on election day then the liberals can do the same to get those who don't have transportation to the DMV to get their ID's!

Mary said...

OK Anonymous...because you can't think for yourself and need someone to lead you by the hand come follow me down the path of knowledge...
My daughter is a college student in Madison WI, our state Capitol. We live in Milwaukee WI, the states largest city. These two "towns" are 72 miles apart. My daughter has a drivers license with our Milwaukee address on it...that would be ID...and she had her Student ID with her name and picture on it, and she has a lease signed. Here in Wisconsin until today, that would be all she needed to register and vote in Wisconsin. But after today she will have several options...she will NO LONGER be able to use her student ID at the polls, so she will have to get a drivers license in Madison or a Wisconsin State ID with her address in Madison to once again vote there, even though she is registered there and has already voted several time there...or she can come home re-register here and vote, which entails me driving 72 miles to pick her up, because we aren't rich and can't afford to buy her a car, then have her vote and take her back. Voting is held on Tuesday and she works and goes to school. She refuses to miss work (because she's conscientious like that)and school (because she doesn't want to be a dumbass, like a Republican kid). So instead of just going to vote, which is her right in this country, she will have hoops to jump threw to satisfy the fucked up Republican's because they know that College students will vote against their terrible policies.

You have to show an ID to buy cigs or meds, but you don't have to have proof of residency. I can go to a store here or in Madison or in Illinois for that matter and as long as I have my ID I can buy these things. To equate the two is ridiculous because student's and the poor often move every year, if not more and will have to purchase a new ID or Driver's license with every move!

Answer me this Republican's...If your idea's are so good for the country, why do you have to "cheat" and lie about voter fraud to get them passed?

I just got back from picking my Daughter up in Madison and on my way out of town I go down a street that goes to the Capitol. There were tons of people marching again! I wanted to stop, but had to hurry home to be with my Mom. BUT THEY ARE STILL MARCHING! YEAH!!

Les Carpenter said...

Just an observation... It seems those that scream fascism at everything tend to be the ones who need be feared the most. be they demacrud or republiscum.

Sue said...

Mary why doesn't she vote absentee?

Sue said...

RN, I only scream fascism at the fascist rethuglicans, cuz they are..

Mary said...

Yeah Sue that is also an option, and the one we will probably use...if I can get her in to register, request a ballot and then get her to mail it in. To think all she had to do before was walk across the street.

Sue said...

it is a good option and one I find VERY convenient. She'll love it!

TOM said...

Trolls (RN) never speak to the issue, they just come on here to insult you.

Sue said...

I know Tom, they're like dirty flies on your picnic food.

BB-Idaho said...

Poor Wisconsin. The guv doesn't trust his voters, but he will hire a worthless son of lobbyist.
Walker is a first class jerk
...

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lisa said...

Boo Hoo in 25 states you already need photo ID to vote.
I find it amazing that any citizen would be against this.
It's always the old,it's always the poor,blah,blah,blah.

You know what you can't run a country around poor people. Guess what, it's not always about the poor.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Bourgeois Elitist) said...

It's not always about the poor? No kidding Lisa! It's always about the rich. That's why we can't have the poor voting.

Chrissy...The Apothecary Shop said...

Morning Sue...how are you..just had to come by and say hello,I miss you,never enough time in the day! How is Ameila and Kim and everyone..would love to see a new photo of her(before she gets married..hahaha)Meg is still in Haiti till next Sat.I miss her sooooooooooooooo much but I know she is in her glory! Talk soon,lots and lots of love!x0x0

Jolly Roger said...

lisa the completely retarded off-product of siblings mumbled,

You know what you can't run a country around poor people. Guess what, it's not always about the poor.


Guess what ELSE you can't do, you worthless excuse for an ass? You can't maintain a democratic society if all the wealth is in the hands of a few people. THAT is why your wet dreams are doing what they're doing.

You morons had all the advantages this society had to offer, and then you turn around and stick your neighbors, friends, and children in the ass. Contempt doesn't even begin to describe my antipathy towards your ilk.

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Sue said...

isn't it amazing how lisa describes herself as one of us little folk, but will forever stick up for the 'scummy, greedy, take it all while you can' republiscums! Why is it the righties are so hypnotized by those bastards and so quick to blame those like herself for the countries woes? So she blames poor people for the condition our country is in! HA!!! BLIND STUPIDITY! Like people wake up one day and choose to be disenfranchised, poor, unemployed, homeless.....yes of course the rightwingers believe if you are anyone of those then it's your OWN LAZY FAULT!! Thats why they hate you lisa, don't ya get it? They really hate you but you still love them...

okjimm said...

per anon... the real issue is not having a photo ID... but the type of ID. Example...all Student ID's issued by the State U system will not be valid. The new rule is " with signature AND have a minimum of a two year expiration.... which none of the current ID's have. It is the contingencies of the bill, not merely the ID part. Another example... you must be in your current residence 28 days to vote. I can have lived here my whole life, IF I MOVE WITHIN A MONTH OF THE ELECTION DATE... I CANNOT VOTE!

again, the republicans would like to pass the measure off as avoiding fraud.... which has never been a problem.

Sue said...

thanks Jim, great points to add to my rant!!
Righties are duped again into believing their Nazi leaders, it's all about fraud and illegal immigrants, it's all about the budget, it's all about....

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Leslie Parsley said...

There are only 8 states - not 25 - that already require photo IDs.

Over 30 states have passed bills or have bills pending that are designed to suppress certain groups of voters - disabled, seniors, college students, poor people and minorities. Many of these bills also impact on rural residents and military personnel. The one and only intent is to keep people who tradiaionally vote Democratic away from the polls. This goes way beyond politics as usual and is totally unconstitutional. But since when have the Republicans honored the Constitution?

This is a well organized and well funded effort coordinated by the conservative American Legislative Exchange Council. All these bills practically have the same wording.

They love to cry "voter fraud" But there's very little of it in fact. What there is has been committed by Republicans. If we the people can't even vote, we can't vote the bastards out.

And yes, RN, you can bet you sweet ass that this is a well known fascist tactic. There is no way on earth you and the Loon can defend voter suppression. Next it will be you, mein Herr.

Leslie Parsley said...

WI State Senator Lena Taylor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJb-dvfLQ3k&feature=share

Les Carpenter said...

From a comment left elsewhere...

"Rational Nation USA said...
I simply fail to see the problem with a photo voter ID card that confirms your State and US citizenship. If you haven't the time {or legitimacy} to get a card, well you don't vote.

only requirement... proof of state and US citizenship. Of course cost to maintain an effective data base to insure there is no nefarious activities going on would be substantial."

Simple, straight forward and in no way would it suppress the vote. Only the nuttery radicalized progressive would think so. Or the person {or political party} that thinks they benefit from voter fraud.

My original point stands.

Leslie Parsley said...

This nut has spent weeks doing indepth research on this matter. I stand by what I say - without trying to be coy by riding the fence. You're gonna burn your balls off doing this RN.

Leslie Parsley said...

According to New Hampshire House Speaker William O’Brien (R) the legislation is necessary because there “are kids voting liberal, voting their feelings, with no life experience.”

Sue said...

that's right Leslie. The whole voter ID bill has nothing to do with fear of fraud, it has to do with suppressing the Dem vote. RN you are a blind sheep... Baaa Baaaa

Les Carpenter said...

Progresives are, and always have been the biggist sheeples in creation. Follow the heard in look step emotionalism to the great abyss. Have a pleasant free fall when reality finally catches up to you.

I have never seen such hate as the hate that fills a radicalized progressive.

Good day.

TOM said...

I guess RN must have disagreed with the progressive legislation to ensure equal protection for blacks like voter laws and desegregation of schools and all public places.
RN (cult follower of Ayn Rand) agrees with the current manifestation of racism; that a private owner of a public business should have the right to discriminate against blacks, or anyone else.
RN's problem, is that he should have been born before the Civil War. He would have fit right in with the other plantation owners.

Leslie Parsley said...

What RN doesn't grasp is the huge difference between hate and disgust. He and the Loon feel that it is acceptable to visit progressive blogs, hurl insults all over the place, and then expect the people who've been insulted to say, "thank you." My ass.

Finntann said...

Wow, you can kill democracy with a vote by your elected representatives... what a concept. Your logic is flawless and if we weren't so fascist we'd just have open world-wide voting over the internet. I'd like to know what 1.4 Billion Chinese think we ought to do about I-94.

Cheers

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Bourgeois Elitist) said...

Finntann, those elected officials are about to be recalled... which is why the Republicans had to push this through as quickly as possible... to stop as many of the people who would have voted to oust them as possible.

Leslie Parsley said...

Elected officials aren't elected to run roughshod over the Constitution, which guarantees each individual the right to vote. This whole scare tactic of "voter fraud" is a crock. Most states already have very strict laws in place that duely prosecute those who break these laws, which includes stiff fines and jail sentences. For a state that is already financially strapped to lay out $5.7 million for a phantom fraud is outrageous. To deliberately design laws that discourage voters from voting is unconstitutional. I heard one WI Representative state on the floor that the reported fraud cases amounted to only .0025% percent in Milwaukee and .002% in the whole state. That is all and the quilty parties were served hefty fines.

She also read this from Ayn Rand, the Goddess of the Right:

"Individual rights are not subject to a public vote. A majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority. The political function of rights is to precisely protect minorities from oppression by majorities and the smallest minority on earth is the individual."

Les Carpenter said...

What a bunch of ideologically driven bullshit.

Talk about the intolerant. This is certainly the place for it to be found.

Oh sure, as long as everyone basically agrees with your positions all is well and rosy.

But, let anyone with a rational mind present an opposing view and they are summarily trashed.

I do what I do on progressive sites because they have EARNED the push back nd sarcasm I dish out.

But WTF, enjoy your partisan lying bullshit amongst yourselves. It is wonderful to keep a crowd where no one steps out of line.

FASCISM PROGRESSIVE STYLE.

Rusty Shackleford said...

Not one of these "progressives" have given a valid reason why showing an ID to vote is friggin such a hardship.All they say is....ohhhhh,the seniors....ohhhh the poor....ohhhh,the blacks.
How the hell is showing a valid ID going to stop these people from voting? Liberals,stop and think just how stupid you sound on this,you really cant be serious.

Leslie Parsley said...

Rationality is a matter of perspective. Funny, RN, I would have thought you'd eat up anything Ayn Ryan wrote. Why are the people who want citizens to be able to vote AS GUARANTEED IN THE CONTITUTION intolerant?

These photo IDs discourage voting and put up unnessary obstructions for these groups of people because many of them can't have cars, can't drive, or are too disabled. Since you're probably free, white and healthy, you obviously have no realistic idea how oppressive, suppressive and depressive this is for millions of people. It's hard enough to find someone to take you to the grocery, much less to take what usually amounts to untold hours and miles of travel to get a photo ID.

Florida's new laws are even more restrictive. In an editorial, the St. Peterburg Times calls it for what it is and further says, "Republicans claim that the changes are necessary to address voter fraud. That's a laughable contention, dispelled by the Florida Department of State, which reports that only 31 cases were referred to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for investigation between January 2008 and March 2011. There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in Florida. Besides, voting by absentee ballot is most the susceptible to fraud, since no one sees whether the named voter is the one who fills out his ballot. Yet Republicans had no interest in putting new safeguards on absentee voting."

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/floridas-governor-signs-assault-on-democracy-into-law/1170616

From a NY Times editorial:

"A survey by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that 11 percent of citizens, 21 million people, do not have a current photo ID. That fraction increases to 15 percent of low-income voting-age citizens, 18 percent of young eligible voters and 25 percent of black eligible voters. Those demographic groups tend to vote Democratic, and Republicans are imposing requirements that they know many will be unable to meet."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/opinion/27wed1.html?_r=1

And here are the facts about phantom voter fraud - just another lie, another fear tactic, the right is so good at propagandizing:

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/

People should be encouraged to vote, not discouraged - but small turnout, as has been pointed out in so many places, is to the benefit of the Republicans.

Les Carpenter said...

"And here are the facts about phantom voter fraud - just another lie, another fear tactic, the right is so good at propagandizing:"

Right on the first...

Just leftist propaganda on the second...

At any rate leftists miss the point.

Leslie Parsley said...

We nasty, lying, fascist progressives just don't know what we're talking about. Here's proof:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-19/republican-governor-popularity-plummets-from-ohios-kasich-to-floridas-scott-to-wisconsins-walker/

Sue said...

thank you Leslie, that's all I need to say...

Leslie Parsley said...

There you go projecting again, RN. It isn't the left who's used the lie that this is about voter fraud - over and over and over again and in states all over this land of ours.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

How 'bout this for a compromise? Elderly people and people who have been voting from the same address for years and years, they get grandfathered in. I.E., those people can continue to show their ss card or whatever at the polling place. But with all of the new registered voters, we make them get a pictured ID. It can be provided at the time of registration and the fee waived for hardship cases.......Chris Matthews (not exactly a right-winger) is in favor of a fool-proof national ID card FOR EVERYBODY, something that would help not just with voter fraud but with illegal immigration as well. My compromise could be a start in that direction.

Finntann said...

Says alot that you believe that in order for people to vote for your agenda they need to be too stupid to get a photo ID.

The right to vote is one derived from citizenship, not presence in this country.

If you can muster the votes to recall these people, more power to you, but it would seem to me that until you do you are all bluster and little substance. Seems like if you were all that concerned you'd be out helping all these poor ID deprived folks follow the proper process to get their ID... it isn't all that hard. You're either part of the solution or part of the problem, and from where I stand it seems you are the former.

okjimm said...

Will H.../people who have been voting from the same address for years and years, they get grandfathered in./

that IS they way it works now... and again... really read all the provisions.... ex. I have voted in my city for over 40 years.... if I MOVE WITHIN 28 DAYS OF AN ELECTION... I CANNOT VOTE!!! ID or no ID. I can bring in as much documentation as I want... ex. 2 if my ID says james john xxxx but I am listed on the poll record as james j xxx... my vote can be disqualified. It is NOT just about the ID.... they have added so much crap onto the bill. and again.. there has NEVER been an issue with fraud.... EVER... plus the Wisco Governor is astutely spouting about balancing the budget... to avoid an illegal "poll tax" all new ID's must be provided free... at a cost estimated to be $5.5mm. Why are we fixing something that is not broke...at an expense we do not need?

okjimm said...

finntam... again...//or part of the problem// THERE IS NO PROBLEM THAT NEEDS A SOLUTION. WHY IS THIS NECESSARY? logically.... if you read the whole wisconsin bill... it becomes apparent that there is no need.... none.

Leslie Parsley said...

okjimm - you are of course exactly right. Let's look beyond the photo ID requirement and see what else is in the bill:

Forces Provisional Ballots: The bill eliminates a long-standing provision that allows people to change their address or name at the polls. For four decades, Florida allowed those with proper photo ID whose name or address had changed due to marriage, or divorce, or a move by a military family to update that information on Election Day. . . . As one Florida supervisor of elections told the Florida Independent, the provision is “disturbing” as provisional ballots are often reserved for close races and thus “go uncounted.”


Cuts Early Voting: HB 1355 also cuts the time for early voting from 14 days to eight. The early voting reform was among former Gov. Charlie Crist’s (R-FL) election reforms to “prevent embarrassments like the 2000 election.” As the Miami Herald’s Joy-Ann Reid notes, “It was a hard-won victory for working people who sometimes can’t get to the polls if they work odd hours, or run out of time to resolve a problem at the polls.” According to Reid, in 2008, black churches and college students “took full advantage of the extra time” — two groups that overwhelmingly voted for President Obama.

Invalidates Absentee Ballots: The bill severely undercuts the absentee ballot. Under this bill, absentee ballots are determined illegal if the voter’s signature on the certificate does not match the signature on record.” As the Herald-Tribune notes, this will affect “voters who suffer from arthritis, strokes and other ailments that affect their handwriting. Those who fail to update their signatures in time would be out of luck.” The bill states that, if elections results are contested, a court cannot “consider any evidence other than the signatures on the voter’s certificate and the signature of the elector in the registration records” in determining the ballots validity.

Fines Third Party Voting Groups: Third-party voter registration groups, such as the non-partisan League of Women voters, the NAACP, and the Boy Scouts are also targeted by HB 1355 by requiring these groups to turn in registration cards within 48 hours of signature or face fines. Voter groups note that “the requirement would be difficult to meet if they are registering thousands of voters at a time.” Because of the “undue burden” this provision places on “thousands of volunteers,” the League of Women Voters — an organization with a “91-year history of registering and educating voters” — announced today that it will “cease [its] voter registration efforts in this state” should HB 1355 become law.

NONE of this has one thing to do with voter fraud.

Flim-flam Man: Nobody said anything about people being too stupid to get a photo ID. The people who are stupid are the ones who believe the right-wing propaganda as you obviously do, and as proven in your statement: "The right to vote is one derived from citizenship, not presence in this country." Aha - watch those illegals folks. Actually, for the umteenth time, the right to vote is guaranteed by the Constitution. Read it.

Jerry Critter said...

It sounds like, to me, that the terrorists are winning. We are changing the way we behave -- the prime purpose of terrorism. All we have to do is look at the new Voter Laws and the Patriot Act to see our freedoms being eroded in the name of safety and security.

Indeed, the powers of authoritarianism are taking over, primarily driven by the Right.

Leslie Parsley said...

Of course the myth about illegals votings is all ove right-wing blogs and news sources, but "there were only 14 federal convictions for voter fraud involving non-citizens from 2002 until 2005.."

14 within three years. Oh my God.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=131089170

Hugh Jee From Jersey said...

If you're still talking about this at 6;30 PM tonight....COOL!

Jesus took a rain check!

Cheers!

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

I HAVEN'T read the Wisconsin bill. I'm just talking about going forward in general on this issue. When we register somebody in the future, we provide them a photo I.D. (if they can't afford it, we GIVE it to them) And, from that, we work toward a National biometric I.D. card for everybody. It would help us with illegal immigration and also help us to know for sure that a person IS who they say they are.......I'm beginning to think that RN is right about you progressives. It's your way or the highway.

Leslie Parsley said...

"I'm beginning to think that RN is right about you progressives. It's your way or the highway."

So, why in hell do you waste your time and everybody else's time, and in general, making a royal ass of yourselves visiting progressive blogs?

"It would help us with illegal immigration..." This has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Didn't you even read the stats I provided?

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

You don't appreciate contrary views (and I believe that this is Sue's blog and not yours)? I'm looking at the bigger picture here, dude. A national biometric ID card (a proponent of which is that virulent right-winger, Chris Matthews) would help us to know a) who the hell is in the country and b) if in fact a person is who they say they are. AND if we provide it FREE to poor people (and grandfather the elderly), then what in the hell is the problem here? Think, for Christ!

Leslie Parsley said...

I know it's not my blog, missy, but neither is it yours.

It's not so much about the ID card - it's all the other baggage.

Leslie Parsley said...

The one thing I like about being a Democrat, liberal, progressive is that we can disagree with each other and not everyone agrees with Matthews.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

And just for the record, I'm an independent who voted for Obama and more likely will again. And I haven't voted Republican for President since 1988. My only point is that in an era of terrorism and rampant drug violence, it maybe isn't the worst thing in the world to know who in the hell is habitating here. In the entire country, I'm saying, not just Wisconsin....And, again, we give it to the poor people FREE. FREE!

Sue said...

Jerry I was thinking the exact thing yesterday! The terrorists are winning because our country is "broke" from fighting them for 10 yrs, the wingnuts are TERRIFIED of an infiltration of terrorists so they want to fundamentally change everything about our constitution and take away our rights to live a normal life, everything about our daily lives is different because of wingnuts fear of terrorists....OR IS IT?? Are they using it to justify their need to turn us into a fascist state?! Rid the country of liberals, that is their agenda!!

This ID vote bullshit has nothing to do with fraud... it is fascism pure and simple...or should I say evil.

okjimm lives in Wisconsin, he knows what he is talking about, I trust his opinion and he is the one we should be listening to. We DO NOT need different voting laws popping up all over the country, Righties need to crawl back under their rocks and leave us the fuck alone!!

Sue said...

Will, that is hilarious! What does terrorism and drug violence have to do with voting?? Sheeeesh

Let's vote like its 1999! NOTHING HAS CHANGED PEOPLE!..... except the wingnuts have turned into fascists....

Leslie Parsley said...

I don't totally disagree with the terrorist thingy, although it's been blown way out of proportion and used as another one of those silly fear tactics. Yet, we can't deny that the world has changed and I don't think we should dismiss it out of hand. But I feel we have just as much to fear from domestic terrorists such as the white supremacists or patriot groups. What I don't quite understand is what this has to do with preventing voter fraud - and I think the argument re drug dealers doesn't hold water at all.

A national datsbase invites all kinds of abuses such as misuse of private and personal information, especially in the wromg hands. That alone would discourage many perfectly honest people from getting a photo ID.

Providing free cards to the disabled, the poor and seniors would help but is the government willing to pay someone to pick up these people and drive them to wherever and wait for 3, 4 or more hours and then take them back home? Or to send around mobile units to process these IDs? What if they don't have a birth certificate, which many people don't have - or a social security card.

And so the cards are free. Does anyone know the mounds of paper work that has to be filled out before you can get something free and how long it can take? Just another barrier.

People who are poor, old or disabled can live very isolated and lonely lives. Unless you've been there you have no understanding of how demeaning and discouraging it is to have to ask someone to take you anywhere. So, you don't bother. Another barrier.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Glad to make you laugh, Sue. I was giving the added benefits of a biometric national photo ID card. It would make it harder for companies to hire illegals (something, hello, that pushes wages down - we want the poor people to make more money, don't we?).......And what's with this waiting 4 hours stuff? I go to the CT Dept of Motor Vehicles (the habitat of some of the most knuckle dragging Neanderthals in the galaxy) and I've NEVER had to wait anywhere near 4 hours. This is as silly an argument as that 57 year-old getting carded for cigarettes. And I'm assuming that these same poor people have to wait for a while to get food stamps, heating assistance, etc.. Shouldn't they be just as motivated to vote?......No birth certificate, no social security card? Are you saying that we should be allowing people to vote with NO identification whatsoever? Seriously?

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

A data base that can be misused? That doesn't happen already with registering to drive a motor vehicle or applying for a credit card or filling out your income tax forms? The government already knows everything about us.......And as for the old isolated poor people, I already said that they could be grandfathered in. They wouldn't have to wait the 3-4 hours.

Leslie Parsley said...

Well, since my arguments are so silly, I guess there's no point in participating in this dicussion any further.

Sue said...

the whole argument could be avoided if the wingnuts never engaged such idiotic voter changes. IT WASN'T NECESSARY...

Jerry Critter said...

Will,
I am not sure I see the real benefit, to me and the American people in general, in having a national ID. Without going back over the comments in detail, I think you have presented two reasons for them. (1)So we know who is in the country and (2) so we know that you are who you say you are.

I am not what (1) means. Who is "we" for one thing? Does that mean I can look up a database and see the name and picture of everyone in the country. What about people who sneak in...like now? Whoever we see on the street is obviously "in the country", so they don't need an ID to prove that. I am searching for the benefit...to me and you.

Item (2), it is not against the law to use any name you want to...as long as it is not for fraudulent purposes. For example, it is not illegal for me to say I am Jerry Critter. Are you saying that if I don't have a national ID that says I am Jerry Critter, I should be fined or jailed?

We have to provide some sort of ID to register to vote. We have to sign under penalty of perjury that we are the person that is voting. The system has worked for a long time with minimal problems.

Why create a whole new system to do what works fine now? That's what conservatives are always accusing liberal of doing when we want to help people.

I don't see how a national ID helps the average American. Do you?

Mary Mayhem said...

It's not at all necessary; they (conservatives) will just throw all of the questionable liberal ballots away (hanging chads, misspellings etc.) or if a liberal is actually endanger of winning, several trunk-loads of missing conservative ballots will suddenly appear (stuck in copy machines, fell behind the fridge etc.) At least the old tactics were more cost effective and went mostly hidden, now they are "making" legislation which takes all of the covert, clandestine nature out of it. Are they dumb? We are on to you now repubs. We are on to you and your wasteful tactics.

Leslie Parsley said...

Good points Jerry - and Mary. Funny thing is, as I mentioned somewhere up there, most of the cases of major voter fraud have been committed by the Republicans. ID cards wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference in any of those cases.

Sue said...

yes Jerry and Mary, Thanks! Leslie if the Democrats come together to help each other get what is needed to vote we could eliminate the thugs and their damn laws, and just think Righties, you won't be able to cheat and steal elections anymore cuz you have invented the fraud busting laws !! :-))) WOW we all win in the end! :-)))

Sue said...

sarcasm allowed...it's my blog

Les Carpenter said...

Sue - Hell of a comment stream. I hope I contributed to you're traffic on this one.

Gotta give the progressives this much, ya sure as Christ know how to bring em in.

Is it something about "give me a child at 12 and he'll be a socialist for life?" Or something like that. I have no doubt not being a socialist/communist that I have misquoted the exalted words of the socialist Icon who said them

Sue said...

Don't flatter yourself RN, my liberal friends always visit and leave highly intelligent comments.

There is nothing in the whole wide world wrong with a little socialism, in fact I call myself a socialist, as in the words of the great Lawrence O'Donnell....and ME!

I love our President Barack Obama too!

Flying Junior said...

Exactly $.02 worth:

Excepting the military, absentee ballots and republicans who vote on behalf of their aging parents in nursing homes, each registered voter has a polling place where they are allowed to vote. Each poll has a list of these voters. When you go there to vote they check your name against the list. If I get to my neighbor's garage and find out that someone has voted in my name, you can bet your sweet bippy someone is going to hear about it.

Annoying liberal democrats have further introduced legislation in my state that actually allows registered voters to vote at any legal polling place. Problematic? Guess what! Those ballots are carefully checked before they are counted.

In a nutshell that's why and how the system works quite well, thank you.

Sue said...

good morning Fj and thank you, that was a mighty fine 2 cents worth!

TOM said...

No one reads your blog RN because it's full of lies and bullshit.
If you would ever speak to the issue instead of insulting people you might.........forget it your to much of an asshole to get any readers no matter what you do.
To the idiot (Rand cultist) RN any communal process, is socialism. To RN America is socialist because we chose a communal process to build our great country.
To RN, any help given to the people from the government, is un-American; even though we paid taxes to provide those services to those who meet the guidelines and generation after generation have recommitted to those programs.
That's not allowed under the selfish Randian theory.
RN is so pro America, that he thinks it's fine to suppress liberal votes by not allowing students to vote because they don't attend school in the State they were born in.
There's that "birth" problem RN has, again. I guess I must have a computer chip shoved in my ass at birth to prove to bigots like RN that I am American.
RN is not sure if Obama was born American, or not, or if he is a Muslim, or not. That makes RN not only racist, but also stupid.
So RN if I'm a 20 year old (18 is the federal legal age to vote) black guy from Boston attending NYU I cannot vote because I'm black, or just because I'm from Mass.?
RN, how's the new movie about your GOD (Ayn Rand) doing? Yes everyone got your annoying message about the movie.
RN, do you ever insult people at 3 in the afternoon, or do you have to get in asshole mood at 3 in the morning?
RN must have run out of ideas to bitch about Obama. He wrote a post about how Carter was the worst President in History, like there's nothing more current to write about, especially if there's nothing to bitch at the Current Democratic President about.
Seems silly to go on and on about how big of an asshole RN is, but I'm sitting on the throne this Sunday morning, which of course made me think of RN.
RN, go write another post, Bachmann needs to know what to think/say this week.

Sue said...

see RN, my friend Tom always leaves intelligent, informative and entertaining comments! Thanks Tom, hope you are having a great weekend!

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Grung_e_Gene said...

Republicans don't believe in Democracy they never did. Republicans have always feared the demos they inherited that fear from Alexander Hamilton.

Now, most conservative voters are too stupid to realize why Hamilton was against the People (as he was educated in the classics a stigma which would earn him the Elitist Label today).

But, what conservatives do know is they are first in line for the scraps and leavings their Moneyed Masters allow them to have.

Conservatives are not only happy to be wrapped in the chains of Wage Slavery and Bondage they strive to ensure that the rest of America is pulled down into the pit with them.

Les Carpenter said...

Tom - You're so full of bullshit you must have a terribly strong taste in your lying mouth all of the time.

Continue to enjoy your delusions however. After all Sue, your groupie, has your back.

Or is it the other way around?

Leslie Parsley said...

The only difference between RN and Lisa is that RN is slightly more literate. Otherwise, they are as classless, thuggish, tacky, rude, boorish, hate-filled, unpatriotic, stupid and ignorant as all the rest of the Tea Bugging Yahoos. Why even bother engaging them?

Anonymous said...

Wage slavery? You mean, a job? LOL Friend, my God, show some initiative will you.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Bourgeois Elitist) said...

Anonymous, wage slavery is a real concept, not a Frank-Luntzism Grung_e_Gene pulled out of his ass.

"It is the impossibility of living by any other means that compels [the common laborers] to go down on their knees to the rich man in order to get from him permission to enrich him... They must therefore find someone to hire them, or die of hunger. Is that to be free?"

(An excerpt from a quote by the French journalist and advocate, Simon-Nicholas Henri Linguet - 1763)

Dave Dubya said...

Bottom line:

Republicans are the instigators of class warfare. We all know who they work for. They also share the authoritarian contempt that Soviet and Chinese Communists and fascist dictators hold for workers' rights.

Make no mistake; the Republican Party is the greatest threat to the small bit of democracy that we have left. Voter disenfranchisement under the false guise of “voter fraud” is a large part of their war on democracy. "Conservatives” hate democracy. Not real conservative people like the Amish or honest, humble working class Americans, but political Right Wingers who've hijacked the word conservative, like they slimed the word liberal.

Now "Conservative" means anything that favors the agenda of the economic elite. And the elites are certainly opposed to democracy. Aristocracy will never tolerate democracy.

Don't take my word for it. Open your eyes and see what's going down, from Union busting to the Patriot Act. This is fascism on the rise. The powerful elite have made the working people of America their enemies.

And heed the words of the enemies of democracy:

"I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of the people. They never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.” – Heritage Foundation co-founder Paul Weyrich

Jerry Critter said...

That's a great quote, Dave Dubya. It defines why republicans do what they do. It has been shown over and over again. Republicans win when the voter turnout is low.

Leslie Parsley said...

Double ditto Dave and JC.

Flying Junior said...

Dave,

You so totally rule. I am humbled. I have one more insight.

Remember that a lot of the good guys, like Abbie Hoffman, got their start by helping southern blacks register to vote. Bob Filner, U.S. Representative for a district neighboring my own, and hopefully the next mayor of San Diego, was a freedom rider. That's right. Birmingham Fucking Alabama 1961. We've come a long way in fifty years. Yet in another way, we have come full circle.

Leslie Parsley said...

FJ: Oh my gosh. Abbie Hoffman! I have some old black & white photos I took of him when he came to Houston for a protest. I admired and loved the man. Remember his book, "Steal This Book?" But, I don't believe he actually came to the South to take part in the voter drives. He did, however, sign up with SNCC and opened "Liberty House" in NYC where items were sold to raise money for the effort. Then he founded the yippies and the rest is history. He was irrascable, outrageous, funny as hell, brilliant and perhaps a little mad. I had the hots for him big time. : )