Alternet...
The fact is, Walker is carrying out the wishes of his corporate master, David Koch, who calls the tune these days for Wisconsin Republicans. Walker is just one among many Wisconsin Republicans supported by Koch Industries -- run by David Koch and his brother, Charles -- and Americans For Prosperity, the astroturf group founded and funded by David Koch. The Koch brothers are hell-bent on destroying the labor movement once and for all.
All you rethuglicans in the country who believe the will of the people put teabaggers in all those governorships last year, think again. The protesting that will come out of those states where their GOP leaders are trying to destroy the unions because they believe it will bring down the Democratic Party are in for a rude awakening. If Glenn beck thinks liberals will take to the streets you ain't seen nothin' yet! No evil Koch is gonna turn our country over to the rightwing extremists!
Get ready Wisconsin here come the crazies!!
Tea partiers are arranging for buses to the state Capitol, with the help of a local talk radio host. They're promising a massive counter-demonstration to all those angry teachers. And this effort is being spearheaded by the conservative group American Majority, which has been
American Majority has set up an "I Stand With Scott Walker Rally" Facebook
page to spread the word, and by 1 o'clock Friday, 1100 people had
replied and said they were planning to descend on Madison. And if they
and others do flock to the state capital, Madison could well become a
media circus. Conservative provocateur Andrew Breitbart will be
headlining the tea party rally, along with Gateway Pundit blogger Jim Hoft, who recently scoffed at the Egyptian pro-democracy uprising. (Hoft also blamed CBS News reporter Lara Logan's "liberal belief system" for her sexual assault in Egypt.) Recently added: potential GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain.
And there may also be a cameo appearance by Joe "The Plumber"
Wurtzelbacher, who tweeted Friday morning that he was headed to Madison
to "do some interviews."
STAND STRONG LIBERALS!!!
48 comments:
Well now that the Tea Baggers are on the way I suppose Anderson Cooper, Katie Couric and Shep Smith can't be far behind. They can now come to Madison and tell all those ignorant republicans what evil people we liberal Wisconsinites are.
Thank God for MSNBC and Ed Schultz, nobody bothered to cover it on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...but them! Unfortunately there is no way to get out in front of the Corporatocracy and get the truth out.
Ed Schultz isn't "covering" these rallies. He's cheer-leading and propagandizing for them. Big difference. Anderson Cooper - now there's a real journalist. Thank God for HIM......Also, when are we going to hear a condemnation from the left for all of these Hitler, Mussolini, Mubarak, Walker's face in the cross-hairs signs? I mean, if for nothing else than to avoid the hypocrisy charges.
As for One Wisconsin Now's claim that "Governor Scott Walker and the Republican-controlled state legislature have added over 140 billion in new special interest spending", the nonpartisan watch site, politifact.com rated this their highest level of deception - "Pants on Fire"......25 billion of these 140 billion dollars in tax cuts go for economic development tax credits (job creating, capital investment, and related activity), and as politifact points out IT IS NOT EXPECTED TO BE CLAIMED DURING THE 2011-2013 BIENNIUM. There will be NO SPENDING INVOLVED!!!.....48 billion more will go to health savings accounts deductions - the most important point here probably being the fact that NEARLY EVERY OTHER STATE ALREADY ALLOWS THIS......The final 67 billion (33.5 million for each of the next 2 years) will go to tax deductions for creating jobs. Employers will get a tax deduction for each new job they create.......Look folks, I don't know if these tax cuts are a good idea or not. But to characterize them as give-aways to his, the Governor's, "friends" is absolutely ludicrous.
I'll look at that Will.
Ed Schultz is not a journalist. He is a political commentator and is doing what he is paid to do.
Schultz is a good guy, Jerry. I'm not saying that he isn't. I just have a problem, in general, with partisans having their own unfettered platform like this. And, trust me, I've been just as hard on guys like Hannity and O'Reilly (the name of my blog is Contra O'Reilly).
Sue, again, I don't know whether or not these tax cuts are a good strategy or not. My suspicion is that the guy is simply trying to prevent people and businesses from leaving and heading to Arkansas, North Carolina, etc., that he's basically trying to make his state more competitive - not that he's trying to "take care of his friends".......And like I said in the previous thread, the unions have seemingly put forth a reasonable compromise - hopefully, the Governor will show some leadership and accept it.
Ha! Ed Schultz just told Limbaugh to wrap his "fat ass" in the flag after telling the crowd that Limbaugh called the fire fighters "free loaders."
Back a couple months ago, Gov. Walker (R-WI) said he was considering decertifying the state's unions entirely, apparently before he discovered the governor didn't have the power to do that.
This reference has an interest chart in it that shows the effect of states cutting taxes. Here is the statement following the chart:
"...in general, the states that cut tax burdens in a two year period have, as often as not, turned in the worst performance when it comes to growth in per capita income in the following six years."
In other words, states that cut taxes the most, generally have the slowest economic growth.
The Unions today told Gov. Walker that they would concede the Health Care and Pension cuts, but they will not let go of their bargaining rights. Walker said NO. This has nothing to do with budgets, nothing to do with deficits. It has nothing to do with whether the tax cuts Walker gave to business or whomever, when he took office. Seriously that is just Wisconsin's version of WMD's. This is just Union busting plain and simple.
Again I will say that my husband and I have been calling Scott Walker "little Hitler" for 8 years. He walked into Milwaukee County and tried to tear it apart, just like he is doing in the State. Luckily we had a board that was able to straighten out some of his mess. I won't apologize for that. He screws things up and then blames everyone else. He never backs down or negotiates, but he sure will pass the blame when it is f'd up. AND...Republican US Rep. Paul Ryan said the protesters were like the Egyptian's, so that would make Walker Mubarak, right? Talk to Paul Ryan about that one.
As for the sign with the cross-hair, consider this your apology from the left in Wisconsin. I am sorry that sign was made. Who ever made it was WRONG, and anyone seeing it should have ripped it up and thrown it away! There is no reason we on the left should crawl in the slim with the likes of Sarah Palin!
There you go Will. I am sorry!
Hypocrisy on display again...by liberals. How many "KILL THE BILL" signs did you see along with all of the other hate-filled personal attack signs on display? Remember how you raged on republicans for using cross-hairs and the word "kill"? No, I'm sure you don't recognize your own hypocrisy.
The AWOL WI democrat state senators are nothing more than a bunch of jr. high mentality shirkers. Cowards.
Also, this is about teachers taking the responsibility for SOME of their OWN retirement costs and SOME of their OWN health care costs. Do you really think that it is too much to ask in the face of possible bankruptcy by the state? Where do you think the money is going to come from to pay for their much higher than average retirement benefits?..I read that many of the public sector jobs boast retirement benefits amounting to $100,000 per person (after only 20 years of work). How many private sector average jobs make anything near that? Why do you all expect taxpayers to fork over more and more money when union people who were simply asked to pay for their own Viagra, said "NO." How is that fair and just? These public workers need to live in the real world and stop expecting the moon when it comes to retirement and health care benefits.
The unions will still be able to bargain, but they should not be allowed to deprive children of DAYS AND DAYS of school because of their unreasonable greed.
Our President once again has taken it upon himself to condemn the actions (reform in budget spending) supported by a majority of the private citizens in state business. He needs to recognize that he is not in control of State business matters.
Perhaps union members should stay in their own states and try to solve some of their OWN state's fiscal problems, rather than bussing thousands across state lines to threaten lawmakers...YES, THREATEN. I thought you Democrats were above all the hate and threats.
USE SOME COMMON SENSE for once. The fiscal problems need to be addressed everywhere. Our nation is broke.
//all of these Hitler, Mussolini, Mubarak, Walker's face in the cross-hairs //
Please provide a link.... 45,000 protestors.... no signs like you mention.
Linda... ah, Bill is not a 'real' person... thanks for thinking of him. A Bill is a piece of legislation. 'Kill a Bill' is the correct term, used by all political parties... kind of the same as 'Kill a 'Turkey' ....gees, go hook a rug.
The Absent Democratic State Senators are 'doing their job'... representing the will of the citizens who elected them.
Linda.. I would respond to more of the false claims you made.... but I do not have a shovel big enough to handle that bullshit. Plus, kiddo, I have read the Wisconsin Budget Bill.... it is loaded with riders and amendments that have NOTHING to do with saving money... NOTHING! So please, next time you say, "I have read.." provide a link, some verification, from a source. You cannot be that totally guileless. You do seem to know how to use the net.......so USE IT.
OKJIMM said ~ " ah, Bill is not a 'real' person... thanks for thinking of him. A Bill is a piece of legislation. 'Kill a Bill' is the correct term, used by all political parties... kind of the same as 'Kill a 'Turkey'
Hey, OK, re-read my comment. It was liberals who got all riled up about using the word "kill" when referring to a bill. Conservatives have always known that the use of the word "kill" in politics was not referring to politicians. After the Giffords shooting in AZ, though, the left made a huge deal of "words mean something" trying to villify republicans for the shooting...until they were proved wrong.
Also, please re-read my comments AGAIN, because I didn't mention Hitler, Mussolini, Mubarak or anyone else. That was someone else.
You could be right about the State Senators doing the will of those who elected them...while in a bar in Rockford,Illinois. They are cowards.
Since you obviously misinterpreted or rather, mis-read nearly everything I wrote, I won't ask for your sources.
Great idea...I think I will go hook a rug...it will be a lot more profitable use of my time than reading this bilge!
wow Linda, once more you come here and spout off false claims about liberals and now you add hard working middle class union workers to the hate. THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY! LISTEN TO OTHER NEWS BESIDES FUCKS NOISE! The unions have agreed to pay what Walker is asking of them, they want to keep their rights to bargain and he says NO, he wants to union bust just like the other middleclass hating MF'ing conservative teafuckinbaggers across this country who just happened to lie themselves into governor positions, which we will see them OUT when their terms are up!
Okjimm, I provided the links to the Hitler, Mussolini, Mubarak, Walker's face in the crossfire signs at the end of the previous thread. AND I SAW THEM on the news. They were there, dude.
BTW Linda, do you ever ask where will the money come from when your precious conservative politicians give tax breaks to the rich?? Do you ever ask why states that are going bankrupt still must take from the middle class and give to the rich?? Does this not seem INSANE??
Wisconsin was in great shape before Walker-Texas-Ranger took over..
Jerry, that's an interesting study (and a tad counterintuitive, huh?). And I believe that the University of Oklahoma came out with a study with similar conclusions. Of course, the Cato Institute has their study which comes to an entirely different conclusion.....Look, here's the way that I see it. Taxes are one of many factors that go into a person's/business' decision on where to locate. There are also factors such as schools, crime rates, services, climate, scenic beauty, family, familiarity, culture, worker productivity, etc., etc.. But taxes have to be A factor. I mean, all things being equal, where would you rather locate your business, in a high tax state or a low tax state? And then there are lying eyes to deal with, too. I know for a fact that many people have moved out of Taxachusetts and into New Hampshire. The taxes are lower and the quality of life is better (for the most part). Look, I don't know if this Walker guy is doing the right thing on taxes or he isn't. But at least his actions are somewhat arguable and not necessarily evil.
Will,
I can see from a business point-of-view, you want to reduce your expenses and lowering your taxes is one way to do it.
But, a State is not a business and taxes are it's source of revenue, not an expense. So, a state should not approach taxes the same as a business does.
The data shows that a State economy generally grows faster, which benefits everyone in the state, when they raise or do not cut taxes much. The more they cut, the slower their overall economy grows.
What is good for business is not necessarily good for the economy. The same thing applies to the wealthy. Cuts in the top marginal tax rate are a great benefit to the wealthy, but hurt the general economy overall.
The question is who should we help?
Yes, the study that you cite seems to indicate that higher taxes grow a state's economy faster. But, like I said before, there are other studies which contradict that. And is there not a point in which taxes DO become counterproductive (retard incentive, revenues, and economic growth)? No less a liberal than John Maynard Keynes seemed to think so (he constructed a precurser to the Laffer curve). I mean, if there isn't, then why don't we just tax people over a certain amount at 99.5%?.....Jerry, New York and California are two of the highest tax states in the country. How's that little strategy working out for them?
Here, folks, are what some of the other signs said; "Separated at birth" (Walker and Hitler), "Hitler outlawed unions, too", "Hosni + Hitler =Dictator Scott Walker", "Reload Repeal Walker", "Walker, the Mubarak of the Midwest", "One down (Mubarak), One to go (Walker). And then there was one picture of Walker with a Hitler mustache and swastika on his chest......Folks, please, can we once and for all put an end to this whole "one side is nastier than the other side" nonsense and accept human nature for what it generally is; hugely imperfect?
Will I have said here before liberals have their extremists and their mean-spirited just like conservatives, but I think we are better at denouncing ours then they are theirs. They have a more holier than thou attitude about their people.
At one time the top tax rate was 91% and the economy did pretty well. At one time the top tax rate was 28% and we had a great depression.
Which do you prefer?
The Laffer curve is total BS. As for taxing people over a certain amount at 99.5%... sounds good to me. As others have pointed out, this is all about union busting, end of discussion.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/88131-gop-lawmakers-rally-anti-health-bill-protesters-on-capitol-hill-
there is a photo of Republican Senators at the National
Capital ... re "the Health care bill.
Kill a bill is an expression that has been in legislative parlance forever. Again, it is only an expression since you cannot Kill and inanimate object.
in my top cited photo the republicans are using the expression correctly. Gees, I am not stooping to this level of bullshit.... I have another meeting to go to and my feet are killing me.
Watch the following report from Rachel Maddow -- it explains exactly what is going on in Wisconsin. Union busting is part of the Republican's long term strategy to destroy the Democratic Party and the middle class.
I pray the courageous WI Democratic state senators stay strong. If even ONE returns the bill will be voted on and it will pass.
If you tax people at 99.5%, people will simply stop investing and the government will take in less revenue. Who in his right mind is going to work to keep 0.5% of his income over a certain level. It's ludicrous.
Sue, except for Maryb1161, I haven't heard anybody here condemn those signs. Okjimm apparently won't even acknowledge them.
that's right w, and it is gonna spread across the country. All those teabagger and conservative governors who were elected have the same plan to union bust I'm sure. The Koch brothers are behind it all, looks like they are on a mission to bring down the unions so dems have less and less campaign contributors.
Will, maybe because it's not the point of discussion. This protest is dead serious stuff and the signs are not something we're concerned with. I love ya Will but give it up...
Jerry, nobody ever paid 91%. There were so many loopholes back then that it was literally a joke. And that's another reason why oppressively high taxes are destructive. People end up putting so much energy in trying to avoid them, time and energy that could instead be used more productively, the end result is even lower productivity......Also, Jerry, back in the '50s, when we had that exorbitant rate, we (Americans) were basically kings of the world. We didn't really have to compete in a competitive world economy (as a kid, we used to make fun of Japanese products). Today, you create a hostile business environment, those businesses will take their operations elsewhere.
Sue, Okjimm asked, not once but twice for me to provide him links to these signs. If he would just acknowledge these links, I would be more than happy to move on.
Briefly....the protesters are willing to compromise on wages and benefits, but will not budge on the attempt to eliminate collective bargaining for public employees.
Make no mistake....war has been declared by the Right and their minions, and Madison,WI has become Gettysburg; what happens there will be a turning point.
And a parting shot....if anyone believes that the destruction of organized labor is a good thing for America, I seriously believe you're out of your friggin' mind.
Have a nice Sunday!
Re::: Will Hart signs.... OK, I checked the link you provided... and the caveat in the story also said..."at least three Nazi signs in the 25,000". With out being sarcastic... that really is insignificant. And only one was shown on the site. But let's be honest, a reprehensible reference.
I did poll several people last night who were in Madison. No one saw any signs like that...they might have existed, but were clearly insignificant, among both groups represented.
Now, as long as we are talking signs, I would like to share a small anecdote told me. A teacher walking by a Tea Party proponent noticed that they had misspelled 'benefit' on there sign and politely said so. before anything else could happen another teacher approached and said, "I have a marker. Let me help you correct it". They did. The Teabagger politely said, "Thank you." And everyone kept marching.
That is a more story than a feew signs carried by anyone.
Again.... very telling. No violence, no arrests.
I was on the phones last night, polling. (of course it was a Dem thing) We worked a list of respondents that last fall all indicated they were voting for Walker. (and it was a list of previous Dem contributors) Now remember 100% of these folks supported Walker in the fall; there were only two questions, 1) Do you still support Scott Walker, 2) Do you support the Budget repair bill.
On question 1 only 65% said they still support him. on question 2 only 35% responded positively
Of course, there were many other comments offered, but the prevailing mood is Walker did not offer complete transparency or that the Bill itself was not detailed with all it's specifications before the election.
Now this is only from my district, but again, it was from a list of previously indicated Walker supporters.
This is Union busting, plain and simple. What is totally baffling, even to their own members, is why Firefighters and Police Unions were exempting from this measure. Walker made a lame attempt this morning to say that to do otherwise would imperil public safety, which is pure bullshit. Those Unions are prohibited from striking already, the issue is economics, and there has not been yet a clear and concise reason given for the exemption. A couple of firefighters I spoke with at a rally were actually rather insulted by the inference that they would let 'houses burn" to make a political point.
Again, this is plain and simple union busting. The Unions have said that they are more than willing to pay more for their benefits... but will not give up collective bargaining rights pertaining to work conditions, hours and work safety. The Governor has adamantly said he will not negotiate.
Just a last thought, I am busy today, historically the private sector has benefited from gains made by Unions. If you are working a forty hour week in a clean safe work environment,with holiday pay, overtime, dignity, you owe something to Unions, whether you belong to one or not.
And, Will, if I seemed harsh or dismissive, I apologize, but the sign thingee, see, was really a non-issue. In Wisconsin, even our most rabid liberals and conservatives are generally polite.
HA! I shoulda mostly, sorta, proof read my own stuff! See, and it ain't no deal, but my sister, the teacher, would be alla over me for notz ritting better den dat.
I have to go.... blizzard starting. I haven't internet connection at home and must use coffee house free site.
See, Will, it is not that I am unwilling to engage, but I do have several time and situational constraints.
Hugh you are so right, this is dead serious shit and people better pay attention!
jimm I heard early on that the firefighters and police unions backed Walker in his election therefore Walker is "paying them back"
Correct in the unions benefiting ALL workers and workplace safety and other issues you mentioned, thanks for that!
From Green Eagle:
"The outlawing of independent unions is the clearest and most consistent marker of despotism around the world."
Sue...the talk is that there is some big pay-back.... but not all of the firefighters and police unions backed him. It is a affiliation of union locals. The other talk is that he ran into trouble with the same Unions when he was county executive in Milwaukee and didn't want to piss them off and instead targeted groups he thought would be easier targets.
Hey a couple of videos you might like... and that offer a different view of what is happening here....the first is our districts Dem rep. He is a very nice guy and I am proud to say I have shared a couple of beers with him at the pub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZsOKNfNkfQ
the second is a student at Madison..... articulate, specific...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TIiRLt9R4Q&feature=player_embedded
.. and remember, she is a 22yr old student, not a professional newsperson or backed by any interest group.
agree with her or disagree.... you still have to tip your hat.
Will said "People end up putting so much energy in trying to avoid them, time and energy that could instead be used more productively, the end result is even lower productivity"
Actually, when the top marginal tax rates are high, people put the money back into their businesses rather than taking it out of their businesses, and the businesses grow and so does the economy. In fact, the economy grows faster with higher marginal tax rates, the optimum being around 60%.
When taxes are low, people take the money out of their businesses and speculate with it. The speculation creates bubbles. The bubbles burst and crash the economy.
We saw it in 1929 when the top tax rate was in the 20's and we saw it recently when the top tax rate was in the 30's, the lowest it has been since the Great Depression.
That's good, Jerry, at least you're conceding that there IS an optimal rate....and that the 99.5% is too high.
The tax rates of the '20s had absolutely nothing to do with the Depression. The Depression was caused by the devastating effects of WW1 (in the U.S. alone the national debt grew 8-fold), the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1929-30 (the most important factor according to Al Gore), and the idiotic actions of the Federal Reserve (raising interest rates 4 times from 1928-1929)........And, Jerry, what if the government doesn't need 60% in taxes from its citizens? It can do what it needs to do on less. Do we still tax at the 60% rate just because some liberal publication somewhere says that this is the optimal rate? Man, do I hate central planning.
I'm confused here. I thought that the reason we shouldn't let wealthy people keep more of their own money was because they DIDN'T spend it. They saved it instead. Now I'm hearing you say that they DO invest it....but that they invest it imprudently......I'm beginning to think that you just don't want people to be better off than you.
Will,
Nobody but you have talked about 99.5% being a tax rate. And that comment about not wanting people to be better off than me is beneath you. I must have hit a button.
Sorry. I was trying to be reasonable here, but I can be a snaky asshole if you would prefer.
Wd said that he agreed with that rate......Sorry about the comment.
I did poll several people last night who were in Madison. No one saw any signs like that...they might have existed, but were clearly insignificant...
Either a insignificant number of idiots on our side decided to create and carry those signs, or they were created and carried by Republican infiltrators. We complained about racist and Nazi signs at Tea Party rallies, and now (by some amazing coincidence) we're doing the same thing by carrying our own Nazi (but not racist) signs? I don't know if I quite buy it.
Wd said that he agreed with that rate......Sorry about the comment.
I meant I agreed with a high rate, not necessiarly the specific rate you said. Let's make it 90 percent then. We need to combine a high top marginal tax rate with a reform of our financial regulations. It simply should not be possible for hedge fund managers to "earn" ten or hundreds of billions.
When conservatives said that the nasty signs at the Tea Party rallies were liberal plants, people (justifiably so) laughed at them. They'll probably laugh at your suggestion, too, wd.....This is right up there with your Joe the Plumber plant theory. LOL
Hey, Sue, if you are not pissed enough at Walker for union-busting, check out Chris Gerrib over at Private Mars Rocket.
They'll probably laugh at your suggestion, too, wd...
Actually I believe that those people who carried the Nazi signs are just idiots. We have them on our side to... although not as many, I'd wager. But I wouldn't be surprised if (at least some) of them voted Republican.
And that doesn't mean I think they were plants, just dummies who voted Con and are now shocked by what Walker is doing.
BTW we already had the Joe The Plumber plant discussion on your blog (I don't know why you're bringing it up here). I'm not absolutely sure what the truth is, but I read the evidence pointing towards him being a plant and I didn't laugh.
Post a Comment