Sunday, June 12, 2011

Another try at debating the issues...

Tomorrow night, CNN, GOP debate. Better than the FOX Nooze debate, hopefully questions will be harder. Hopefully the country will be watching because this election is about whether or not a GOP candidate can do a better job of turning around the GOP disastrous economic policies of the past. HA!!

The Right claims President Obama is incompetent, he doesn't know how to grow the economy, so we should trust the clowns who got us in this economic mess in the first place! Will the unemployment numbers be a thorn in Obamas side? Yes, but what do the GOP candidates want to do about job growth? Same as the past GOP leaders say... CUT TAXES. How's the lowest corporate tax rate in decades worked for America? When will it start working? Michele Bachmann wants to lower the rate to 9%! Will that spur job growth IN AMERICA? I'm not so sure cuz fact of the matter is corporations love moving the business over seas because their profits soar when they can get away with slave labor wages. Americans want living wage jobs, our society can't live on 7 dollar an hour jobs nor should we have to. Corporate greed is killing our country, not a liberal president!

We are on the right track, we keep harping on it but it's true. All indicators are moving in the right direction. So what is wrong with businesses and why are they not hiring? Waiting for a change in Washington? I don't know what the reasoning behind that is because Pres. Obama has done much for corporate America. Guess it comes down to a black liberal in the White House is just too much for some to handle...

The Grand Old Party of long ago is no longer.....watch the debate, see for yourself. Not one of those clowns has the answers you're looking for. I don't know about you but I want to stay the course...

I just saw this on Facebook.....Paul Krugman's repeated calls to Democrats and Republicans to create jobs have fallen on deaf ears. Both parties agree that the "private sector" [corporations] should create jobs; until they decide to hire, nothing will happen. This is not merely "bad policy," as liberals like Krugman like to fret about, but the conscious agenda of the rich. Corporations and rich investors love high unemployment. The Kansas City Star explains why: "Last year [2010], for the second year in a row, U.S. companies got more work out of their employees while spending less on overall labor costs." (February 3, 2011). It really is that simple. High unemployment creates a downward pressure on wages, allowing employers to work the remaining employees harder and thus to increase profits. This dynamic, combined with the above commodity speculation, has been the entire basis for the corporate recovery, while working people have literally seen nothing beneficial.

52 comments:

TOM said...: If you have 10 people lined up to take one job, as an employer you can demand much of the one who gets the job. It's that old fear thing again. Afraid to lose ones job. Statistics show, that times of high unemployment are also times of employer abuse of employees.

I want to hear Pawlenty explain how taking Minnesota from a 600 million dollar surplus when he took office, to a 6 Billion dollar debt by the time he left office makes him a successful State executive as he has been claiming since he entered the race.; June 12, 2011 at 7:40 PM
Dave Miller said...: I think the low taxes mantra is a red herring... of course corporations want to pay low taxes, who doesn't... but perhaps more important would be a stable economic policy that would be both predictable and reasonable.

The constant possibility of change, either for the good, or the bad, vis a vis tax rates and levels, is, in my opinion more to blame for lack of investment than specific tax rates...

And yes I will be watching the debate... but is Bachmann going to be in it?; June 12, 2011 at 7:50 PM
Infidel753 said...: Low taxes don't create jobs. Consumer demand does.

Think about it. If you cut a company's taxes, that's more money left in the company's bank account, but will it use that money to create jobs? Not if demand for its products is still weak. No point in hiring more workers to produce more products that can't be sold.

But if demand for its products increases past what it can produce with its existing work force, then it will hire more workers, even if it has to borrow money to do so -- because it's worth doing so to ramp up production to meet rising demand.

If you want to stimulate job growth, stimulate the economy by getting more money into the hands of poor and middle-class people, who are more likely than the rich to spend it quickly. That's what boosts demand, which creates jobs.

Nor is this just theory. We had fuller employment and faster economic growth in the period (roughly) 1950-1980, when tax rates on the rich were far higher than today, but wealth was much less unequally distributed than today.; June 12, 2011 at 8:24 PM
Mordechai said...: We had fuller employment and faster economic growth in the period (roughly) 1950-1980, when tax rates on the rich were far higher than today,

American middle class jobs weren't being out sourced thru tax cuts for the rich and corps,

The low paying middle class (McDonalds, Walmart) type jobs cannot sustain a recovery like the old good paying Union Auto-and other manufacturing jobs.

In fact the "Walmartization" of the retail sector has destroyed millions of former good paying middle class jobs.

Like this PDF shows;

Lakewood Engineering & Manufacturing Company of Chicago Forced to Open a Factory in China.

In order to supply Wal-Mart, this fan manufacturer has to open a factory Shenzhen, China where workers make $.25 an hour, instead of the $13 in Chicago. Carl Kraus, the owner of the company said about opening the factory “My father was dead set against it. I have the same respect for American workers, but I’m going to do what I have to do to survive.”

Wal-Mart Forced MasterBrand Industries out of Milwaukee, WI.

The parent company of Master Lock, in 1997 announced that, after 75 years making locks in Milwaukee, they would begin importing locks from Asia, and soon after, they opened their own plant in Nogales, Mexico. Now, just 10% to 15% of its locks are made in Milwaukee.

Wal-Mart Advises Mr. Coffee to Move Overseas While Promoting Buy American Program.

Mr. Coffee, which once received an award for move manufacturing operations back to the United States, has mixed feelings on Wal-Mart’s Buy American program. “Mr. Coffee began exploring production in China in 1985, after Wal-Mart demanded a $1 reduction in the wholesale price of a brisk-selling four-cup coffeemaker, says Jeff Blackwell, former senior vice president. Blackwell, who scouted Chinese factories and arranged the deals, says Wal-Mart encouraged offshore production even as it promoted a ‘Made in the USA’ campaign as energetically as DiMaggio touted Mr. Coffee machines.”

Huffy Cannot Compete Against China.

Despite making bikes in the United States for many years, Huffy was forced to close three factories and layoff thousands of workers. Huffy could not compete with cheap bicycles coming from China. Celina, OH, where a large Huffy factory was closed, was hit particularly hard by the demand for low cost bicycles. Celina Mayor Paul Arnold said “… [Wal-Mart’s] demand for cheaper bicycles drove Huffy out of Celina.

After Filing for Bankruptcy, Huffy is Now Partly Owned by the Chinese Government.

After Wal-Mart’s unfair demands pushed Huffy into bankruptcy, the Chinese government’s export credit insurance agency, known as Sinosure, took control of 30% of the company’s stock options. Sinosure executive vice president Zhidong Liang will be Chairman of the Board and over the next five years, Sinosure is expecting to control more than 50% of the company. As part of the deal, Huffy’s pension plan was dismantled and its current and former employees must seek assistance from Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation.

However Walmart is but a symptom of the disease wall street and their bought and paid for republican politicos have foisted on the US, that busting unions and cutting taxes would be good for everyone.

However with 30 years hindsight, we can see the wall street masters and republican politicos have made out rather well, the middle class which the economy has depended on since WW2 for true growth hasn't.

For some reason the republicans still think their base is stupid enuf to buy that pig in a poke.

I guess they want power and the trickle down wall street sends them as brib... er I mean campaign donations, over what is truly good for the middle class, and hence the US economy once again.

No real debate is necessary, they will never abandon their Wall Street masters, no matter how screwed up wall street becomes in pursuit of more dollars for the few while the rest suffer.; June 12, 2011 at 9:47 PM
The CDM said...: That whole line up and only one with a real chance: Cain. Other than that, it's a clown parade and none have a snowball's chance in hell of actually winning.; June 12, 2011 at 9:51 PM
Sue said...: thanks for helping make my point anonymous. appreciated. I guess we will become a third world nation before the righties wake up. it's not just dems out of work and suffering so I don't get the mentality coming from the wingnuts. even all that info posted they will still ignore it and follow lock step with their masters. its mind boggling...

yes Dave, I do believe Bachmann will be there tomorrow.; June 12, 2011 at 9:55 PM
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...: I don't see Johnson's or Huntsman's face up there, Sue. Are those two (two of the more interesting ones) individuals not participating?; June 12, 2011 at 11:51 PM
Dave Dubya said...: We should restore older tax rates on the rich and corporations and use the money for infrastructure amd alternartive energy jobs.

Too sane and sensible, though, for this political climate.; June 13, 2011 at 12:16 AM
Rusty Shackelford said...: You folks hit the nail right on the head.We need to take way more money from those rich bastards and spread it around.There are 47 million americans using food stamps,the rich should be taxed more and then we should give each of those people on food stamps a $500 dollar Costco gift card.Hell,they would spend it in a couple days....talk about a stimulus package.Then we should tax the rich and put solar panels on every house....oil problem solved.Then we should tax the rich and give every american over 18 years of age and making under 20 grand a year $100,000.You know that money would be spent in no time....boom economy fixed.; June 13, 2011 at 2:14 AM
Sue said...: Rusty you are one of those ignorant fucks who think the downtrodden, the unemployed, are in that situation because they are lazy loafers who want to live a life of leisure off someone else's back. Get a life...

The country is suffering and when that happens ALL must pitch in and help, not just one class of people. Oh never mind, I'm sick of repeating myself to idiots...; June 13, 2011 at 6:56 AM
Dave Dubya said...: Folks like Rusty prattle on about the wealthy "job creators". Well they create jobs in China. If they won't do it here then they need to be taxed so we can hire infrastructure jobs.

Why do they hate America?; June 13, 2011 at 9:49 AM
Leslie Parsley said...: I assume this is going to be covered by Comedy Central.; June 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM
Flying Junior said...: Rusty, Why do you hate your fellow citizens in need?

When Newt Gingrich is the senior statesman/voice of reason...

You're in some pretty deep caca.; June 13, 2011 at 10:37 AM
Leslie Parsley said...: Have seen this referred to as a circular firing squad. Too bad we can't put Rusty and Lisa in the center.; June 13, 2011 at 10:55 AM
Unknown said...: I need a good laugh today so my dumbass will be tuning in to watch these dipshits face off.

I think of it as an old Mel Gibson movie that had Tina Turner in it..what was it called? Two people enter, only one leaves...you get my drift..I hope. ;p; June 13, 2011 at 1:33 PM
Unknown said...: Put on the news and listen to your propagandist in chief talk about jobs. Right..and Bush43 did SO much to create jobs didn't he? Plus he never lied to us about Iraq right?; June 13, 2011 at 2:07 PM
Unknown said...: I really hate when rightwingers make me defend Obama. He isn't perfect and I have taken him to task many a time in the last two years..but to call him the propagandist in chief..you are watching way too much Faux Noise, the worlds leader in propaganda.; June 13, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 13, 2011 at 3:13 PM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 13, 2011 at 3:15 PM
Unknown said...: Sorry if I started something but I couldn't let that comment stand without a response.; June 13, 2011 at 4:04 PM
Jolly Roger said...: Rusty you are one of those ignorant fucks who think the downtrodden, the unemployed, are in that situation because they are lazy loafers who want to live a life of leisure off someone else's back. Get a life...

You inherited my Dildohead. My apologies.; June 13, 2011 at 4:27 PM
Mary Mayhem said...: @ Infidel -Totally spot on - It's basic Macroeconomics 101 - for dummies... @ Tom - You won't hear that question asked of Puh-lenty(of debt) because it's a GOP debate...@ Leslie - It will most definitely be covered on CC - it will be prime, premium material for both TDS and Colbert for 2 maybe 3 episodes....@ Rusty - Sounds like you've got Keynesenomics down, too bad there's not a Costco in everyone's town...BOO HOO!; June 13, 2011 at 4:38 PM
Sue said...: Dusty, you're fine, I just have to delete the moron troll lisa no matter what she says. She never learns and still comes back thinking people actually want to talk with her!LOL

JR, I encountered Rusty from Will's blog. He thinks he's big and bad coming here I guess.

Will, I heard Johnson is banned from the debates, and I'm not sure about Huntsman. The group pictured is who I believe will be there according to CNN.; June 13, 2011 at 6:44 PM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 13, 2011 at 10:30 PM
Dave Miller said...: Lisa, except I do not use false facts and Mal has never asked me to leave, or go away...

Sue, regarding the debate tonight, I have a question for the 7 dwarfs who were on stage...

Why are you unwilling, or unable to answer a direct question from either the reporters or citizens here tonight and instead use your pre planned canned responses?; June 13, 2011 at 10:46 PM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 13, 2011 at 11:01 PM
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...: Even Ron Paul was boring tonight.; June 13, 2011 at 11:01 PM
Mordechai said...: They are not going to play paddy cake like McCain did.

Well they would have to actually have a plan and workable ideas, instead of flawed 30 year old failed talking points which helped under cut the middle class and destroy the US economy.

Oh wait your still a far right fringe kool-aide drinker,

sorry,

continue in the fantasy the right wing talking points bots er I mean candidates actually have original workable ideas.

You know ideas that conceivably could solve the problems their ideology created.; June 13, 2011 at 11:18 PM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 13, 2011 at 11:33 PM
Unknown said...: I can't wait to see one of them debate policy with the President. Oh, that is rich Lisa,considering they couldn't answer simple questions about policy and their pov about it from every day people.

They don't need teleprompters for talking points. Those are all memorized.; June 14, 2011 at 1:01 AM
Dave Miller said...: Lisa, there was no telepromper because Sarah Palin was not there.

In case you are unaware of what i speak, her e-mails show her making sure a teleprompter was in place for a question and answer interview with an Alaskan reporter.

Gingrich had the most honest statement of the group when he said about immigration that there are no black and white simple solutions.

I wonder why nobody challenged him on that? Perhaps because he was right?; June 14, 2011 at 1:02 AM
Mordechai said...: Sorry "lisa" but nobody is following the carter model,

You know the one,

we stop using a FINITE resource where we send hundreds of billions of dollars to people who send part of that money to jihadists who want to kill us.

Reagan made sure we were the original source for most of the terrorists funds.

PS didn't work out so well as the last decade in both anti terror dollars and petro dollars both ever increasing it seems. The middle class now gets to spend more money on oil helping to fund the terrorists and to watch their sons and daughters go off in the futile attempt to keep the black gold flowing from the land where they fund terrorists.

The wingnut clown posse thinks THAT is a good foreign policy?; June 14, 2011 at 1:10 AM
TOM said...: I'd love to see Palin (Bachmann, Pawlenty, or any of these brain trusts) debate the Constitutional scholar, President Barak Obama.
What fun it would be to hear Palin tell us what Franklin, Adams, or Jefferson did during the Revolutionary War.
Ms. Bachmann wants to investigate every Congress member, to see if they are pro, or anti American; of course by her standards. By all means, lets go back 60 years to the successful years of McCarthy - Nixon "Red" baiting, fear mongering, and black lists. Just how many "Commies" are in Congress, Ms. Bachmann?
They all were blasting President Obama pretty well during the debate on the economy; but how does Pawlenty's record of driving Minnesota's economy from a surplus to a 6 billion dollar debt any different than the Republican fiscal policies that created the current 14 trillion dollar debt?
Oh yes, I'd love to see anyone of these idiots debate the President.; June 14, 2011 at 3:38 AM
Sue said...: OMG, the fun questions made me GAG..they were trying to make the clowns look likeable..Leno or Conan, Thin crust or deep dish... GAG

We heard NOTHING NEW, it was pathetic. Bachmann said How many times.."I gave birth to 5 children and raised in our home 23 foster kids" and your point is?? That makes you eligible to be POTUS?

Santorum brings up the trickle down wealth line, Romney says Pres. Obama hasn't done anything right to move us forward, Pawlenty sucking up to Romney..no substance to prove to America they can beat Obama, they can grow the economy, they can do a better job.; June 14, 2011 at 7:06 AM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 14, 2011 at 10:21 AM
Flying Junior said...: I got your republican voting guide right here. Take your pick, crazies!

I think the prize for original thinking must go to Herman Cain. His idea of borrowing from progressive, socialist, former president of Chile, Michelle Bachelet is wonderfully fresh. Crazier than a spooked horse, but definitely new. “For example, relative to Social Security. I think that we put the idea of personal retirement accounts back on the table and do what Chile did thirty years ago. They don't have the problem we have today. Now it got demagogued last time as privatization. That absolutely is not the case.”

Michelle Bachmann. “The EPA?” (She cannot bring herself to utter the filthy name, Environmental Protection Agency.) “The EPA ought to be called the Job-Killing Organization!” I sure wish I had thought of that. That’s awesome. She’s a pistol. Hooo Doggies!! Surely the quickest path to wealth is pulling raw materials out of the earth. What the hell do we care about frogs and fish and birds and forests and mountain streams? Groundwater pollution? Oil spills? Wetlands? Fisheries? Get real Dems! Frack now. Ask me how.

Newt Pinkfist. “The first thing that we need to do to create jobs is repeal the Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.” How are we going get the recovery kick-started if some namby-pamby woman is allowed to protect consumers from usurious credit card interest rates? I guess Newt sees the collections industry as the key to recovery. Certainly we all wish to see CITIGROUP’s investors make a handsome return on their money. Here’s an idea. Let’s try to force more people out of their mortgages so that speculators can buy their houses on the cheap. Then, they could double up with other families and rent back their own homes. With all the money the speculators clean up, we could really get housing going again with demolition of all the old crappy houses and new construction of vacation homes. Bet you didn’t think of that, huh Newt?

Tim Good and Plenty. “Let’s bring back Stalin’s five-year plans.” How about a cultural revolution while we’re at it, Tim?

And my favorite, Butt Chimney, still blowing smoke out of his anal. “At the time, we didn’t know what sort of a President he would make. It was a moment of crisis for our economy, and when Barack Obama came to office, we wished him well and hoped for the best.” Is that the way you remember it Mitt? What a dick!; June 14, 2011 at 11:47 AM
Unknown said...: The Party of No has hog-tied Obama on every issue except those they want to make important.

Your party has spent more time in my fucking uterus than anything else since this version of Congress started in Jan.

They couldn't even read the damn Constitution correctly. LMAO, what jerkwads.

But you just wanna gloss over that crap right Lisa?; June 14, 2011 at 12:12 PM
Unknown said...: Oh and Junior..you are a gem sir!

Added bonus, you live in my hometown. Which I visit regularly as I currently live in the reddest part of Cali..the San Joaquin Valley..home to Ahnolds maid..Mildred. Now we know why he came here at least once a month. It wasn't always to discuss screwing his constituency was it? ;p; June 14, 2011 at 1:12 PM
Flying Junior said...: Pleased to make your acquaintance Dusty. We have a lot of fun slamming republicans here at Sue's place. I see that you take home foreclosures very seriously as well.; June 14, 2011 at 3:48 PM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 14, 2011 at 4:22 PM
Unknown said...: Lisa, obviously you are one of those that fall for the bs that our budget problems are all the fault of federal programs that help the poor, elderly and disabled. That the govt spends too much money.

Bullshit.

The problem is due to less money coming into the federal coffers, due to high unemployment and so much underemployment..so you can cut as many programs as you want, but that won't bring another fucking dime into the government.

The r's didn't have a problem w/passing every bill that Bush43 wanted passed. Whether it was funded or not.

Bush43 took a surplus and turned it into a deficit. But you still wanna go after Obama for everything and take no blame for anything. Both parties are problematic because they depend on big contributions to keep being re=elected.

I don't fool myself into believing the Dem's are the good guys and the Repubs are the bad guys. Both sides are assholes and I say that daily on my own blog.

But I come here and read your GOP talking points and you force me to defend the D's. Its a case of the 'lesser of two evils' for me. I hold no allegiance to any party..none. I am registered as decline to state.

So try dropping the GOP talking points, which are nothing more than Obama bashing, and address the issues and what is needed to fix them. It will take both parties to do that w/the way the House and Senate are split now.

We need jobs..not cutting programs out of the budget. How do you see that happening?; June 14, 2011 at 5:14 PM
Dave Dubya said...: Fox's Eric Bolling: Obama Is Hosting "Hoodlum[s]" In "The Hizzouse".

Bolling: Obama Was "Chugging A Few 40's" Instead Of Responding To Joplin Disaster."

So just why exactly are we to not see FOX(R) and the radical Right as racist?; June 14, 2011 at 5:51 PM
The CDM said...: Faux news, racist??? Good argument there. Definaelty, ethnocentristic, DEFINATELY!!!; June 14, 2011 at 6:24 PM
Mary Mayhem said...: @ Dave Dubya - It's because every time you make that totally viable claim against Fox, or any other republican wing nut or Tea Party member who has said, posted, etc. anything that has racial or xenophobic connotations (basically calling them out on their bullshit), they all jump on you viscously with "claws drawn" (or "fangs out", for the newer generation), attack your intelligence, hack into your Facebook/Blogger/Etc., leave threatening comments, and then turn the whole thing around to some how show that YOU are the one who is the REAL Racist™. Why do we allow this to happen? We have better things to do than to deal with their petty schoolyard tactics. Yes, contrary to popular belief, we take the high road. Just like we have taken the high road with Weiner. Our party's leadership is asking him to resign, unlike Vitter, Ensign, et. al's leadership. Party of the moral majority? PPfffff...

I wrote about this racism racket in March. Yes, I actually wrote a real blog for once. Like cats fighting with claws drawn!; June 14, 2011 at 7:32 PM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 14, 2011 at 9:24 PM
Shaw Kenawe said...: "...we should stop giving money away to other countries."

This from the woman who regularly bashes Obama for being anti-Israel.

Here she is advocating for ending foreign aid to Israel, who is surrounded by countries that want to annihilate it.

But that's not unusual for this person who shoots of her mouth before she thinks.

What is mysterious to me is why she continues to come here where she is not welcome and where she is routinely deleted.

She has her own blog and she's a regular at "tha malcontent" and also shows up faithfully on "Pirate Satellite," kid's blog to bash him and call him a "moron."

Yet she can't stay away from here.

She apparently thinks we give a shyte about her ridiculous comments. Comments that, as the above shows, have no basis in fact or reality.; June 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM
Sue said...: WHY ME??? Why do I have to moderate comments because this bitch moron troll from NY/Canada won't stay the hell off my blog!!! Delete delete delete and she still thinks she can come here and "TALK" like we want to chat with her!!! She talks about me and my liberal friends to idiots like Mal, yet she thinks I want her commenting here?? When joe politico stabbed me in the back I told him he was not welcome here anymore and he went away and never came back!!! do as your friend does, lisa, GO THE FUCK AWAY, your comments will forever be deleted! You Betcha!!; June 14, 2011 at 9:53 PM
Unknown said...: Sue she gets a perverse pleasure in harassing you. Moderate all comments and it will go away because then no one will see or be able to respond to "it"...including me.

One of the reasons I use Intense Debate is to keep the trolls off. You can ban their IP addresses. Blogger does support ID's platform by the way..you might want to consider using it or one of the other comment platforms like Disqus, they also allow you to ban IP addys and supports Blogger users: http://disqus.com/; June 15, 2011 at 1:54 AM
Rusty Shackelford said...: Lets give Obama another four years,lets give the House back,lets keep the Senate.

9.1% unemployment..hell,maybe he can take it up to around 15!

47 million americans using food stamps...lets shoot for 70 mil.

Houses lose 30% of their value...F*#K THAT lets go for 60%

Oh shit,what do you mean he's got to run on his record this time....no,no thats not fair...no,lets have hope and change...yea,thats it....hope and change.; June 15, 2011 at 2:26 AM
Anonymous said...: Because you are so good Sue. That always brings the nuts. Your trolls, are your gauge of how good you are. They can't stand how correct, or popular you are.; June 15, 2011 at 5:31 AM
Lisa said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; June 15, 2011 at 5:18 PM
Mary Mayhem said...: The troll vomit isn't even elaborate anymore.; June 15, 2011 at 6:24 PM