I hate the wars, and I hate President Obama' s decision to bring home just a measly 10,000 troops this year and the rest by 2 friggin 14. But what I hate even more is the reaction from the Republicans starting with Tim Pawlenty, better known as Paw Paw....he called the presidents decision a GRAVE MISTAKE and was CONCERNED with the phrase "we need to end the war responsibly". Pawlenty says we NEED TO WIN when we go to war! Oh well, we all know, the whole world in fact knows, you can not win this "war" in Afghanistan, so why doesn't Paw Paw admit to that?? How can you close out a war with a "win" when you don't even know who you are fighting?? There is not gonna be a winner and a loser! Who the hell is gonna be the loser?? And who will be called the triumphant winner??
We need to follow the generals advice Pawlenty says, well if that's the case then we will be in this "war" til the end of time. How many yrs. will it take before the Afghans can take care of themselves, a century maybe?? The "REAL" mission is stabilizing the security of that country Pawlenty says....so we'll keep throwing money we don't have at a corrupt Afghanistan, and we'll have another 3 yrs of watching our troops come home in coffins? What the hell do these warmongers want from our troops and the innocent Afghan civilians?
Pawlenty says "to leave now when we are so close to a successful completion is a grave mistake"....we have heard that before, many, many times before...
All that talk about nation building, yea, what about building our crumbling nation? When will you throw some of that money our way?
It's true, President Obama is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I hate the war, I hate the decision of a slow end to the war, but we are supposed to, as patriots, support our Commander in Chief...Remember Paw Paw??
I'm not happy but I'm still supportive of our president, I don't know any other way to be....
Remember what the warmongers say... we're there for nation building,,, millions if not billions of dollars spent and we see no nation building....
All these pictures were taken in 2011. Wanna dispute them? Show me your pictures of nation building....
42 comments:
Sounds pretty fucking dickly to me.
are you on FB, FJ? Check out Texans Peace, her picture of the war suffering are amazing. Pictures like hers should be all over the news, every night! Maybe the warmongers will see the light if they have to view the truth about war. What do those Washington insiders know about war??
Winning a war use to mean toppling the government which was supporting the war. At least that was the case up through WWII.
Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex. They have figured out that continual war against a stateless enemy is the best way to go. Continuous war means a continuous money stream from the people to big business.
It is time to stop these senseless wars that do nothing but funnel money from the masses to the elite and kill millions of innocent civilians in the process. It is time to stop substituting military action for what should be police action.
I don't really understand who we are fighting. Choosing sides and manufacturing enemies is just perpetuating the hatred and violence. Didn't we learn anything in Iraq? It is the purest vanity and conceit to believe that G.I.s even have any business in Afghanistan whatsoever now that the Taliban has been routed and OBL has been assassinated. If we aren't building infrastructure, providing clean water, housing the displaced or anything else of value, why are we there? Kill all the Al Quaeda and Taliban bad guys? It defies any logic. First thing would be a complete cease-fire. Then a limited police protection and security mission. Then an alliance with the Peace Corps, the United Nations, opening the doors for NGOs, church groups. None of that is happening. Why can't we buy the opium to make medicines such as codeine and morphine? I'm surprised Obama hasn't appointed a viceroy like Bush did in Iraq.
It would be cheaper just to buy all their opium and get our troops the hell out of there.
thanks guys, great comments!
When you dig deep into the military-industrial complex and the real reasons we are in Afghanistan and Iraq, it becomes even harder to support the slow moves by Pres Obama. It's clear nobody in Washington cares about the troops or the innocent civilians, it really is all about money! How sick are we?? It is the fault of both parties, but the Republican party's first priority is for America to be the worlds super power. They criticize Pres. Obama for lowering our standing in the world as leader to more of a partnership with the other super powers. They want us to stay as the worlds bully, so typical of the GOP attitude, we're the nation who loves war, instigates war, continuous war.
How can the leaders of our country care about the killings of innocents in these wars when they don't even care about their own people in this great US of A? The argument in Washington over military spending cuts and cuts to all domestic needs is proof we are are sick nation. We are swiftly crumbling because of endless wars, bin Ladens dream is coming true. This is what he planned, we would go broke fighting "terrorism".
The wars we are currently involved in, are political bullshit like Vietnam.
There have been wars in History, that had to be fought and for good reason. And when those wars were over, the World was a better place (example WW II).
War is ALWAYS bad and harmful, but there are times when we must fight and die. I do not consider these current wars, one of those times.
We never should have gotten involved in these wars, and we should not wait years, to get out of these wars.
Paw Pam is out of touch with the people in his own party. From what I'm reading lately, even Republicans are becoming disenchanted with all these wars.
I hate them and yes, it's time to get the hell out. Unfortunately, it's always a lot easier to start these damn things than it is to end them - or at least our involvement in them. While it would be nice to just pack up our bags and leave on the next plane or ship, I don't know if that's really doable.
I used to have Texans Peace on my FB but defriended them in pretty quick order. There's a lot of good stuff there but the constant Obama bashing began to wear a little thin. It was like listening to Jane Hamsher, who I absolutely detest.
you're right Tom and Leslie...I guess we the people need more forceful demonstrations cuz nobody hears us. I hate the wars but I have to support the president because we do not know the workings behind closed doors and I don't want to start bashing the president, that does no good for our side.
L, I agree about Texans Peace, I don't read her stuff but really love her pictures. They show the war suffering we all should be looking at.
for those who know Malcontent, for shits and giggles check out his war post he copied from mine. Even goes as far as copying some words and phrases!
http://malcontentralphie.blogspot.com/2011/06/war-what-is-it-good-for.html#comments
Any talk of "saving the national economy" is meaningless unless we end the wars bring the troops home. But then again the republicans have no real intention of saving the economy, just their rich buddies.
You know, you gotta hand it to Nixon. He got the army the hell out of Viet Nam, even though we had clearly lost. One helluva man really. That's because he actually cared about his people. The only thing LBJ did was have a nervous breakdown. Nixon got us out down to the very last man. And he did it safely. My hat is off.
A lot has changed over the last thirty-five years. I just heard the Pentagon is spending $20B/annum to air-condition structures. That's a far cry from the chem-suits in the burning Iraqi summer that Cheney warned us against in the rush to war. I wonder what a gallon of gas costs once all the contractors are paid?
BB the GOP hasn't a clue how to save the economy and they know it, proof is in the clowns they have running for 2012. They don't even want the job!
FJ, so true, what a difference. Today's wars are all about money and oil. Isn't it a shame we have these damn doubts about Pres. Obama getting every last man out. Why does he make me feel like that, it's so frustrating! I want so bad to like him and trust him, but he doesn't move fast enough for me! It's just me, I'm real passionate and I want him to be too.
BHO has promised to bring everyone home from Afghanistan by 2014. Let me be the first to believe him. You can't just kill everybody who hates the U.S.A. Bush already tried that.
The brass seems to be a little more nervous about a complete pullout in Iraq. I guess the consequences of a true oil shortage are a fairly strong reality check. Still, that's so fucking stupid. Everybody knows money talks, bullshit walks. Can't help but wish we had just set our big fat ass down in Saddam Hussein's courtyard ten or twelve years ago and sort of forced him to be BFFs. Who the hell is in charge anyway?
I'm glad you believe and trust Obama, I'm gonna try real hard, can't have those trolls talkin' about me now!
your hippie-ness is showing, a sit down with Saddam! The wingnuts woulda gone berserk!! "those damn freedom lovin' liberals, they're gonna ruin everything!!"
I posted a tea party tenet thing a year ago on my blog. One of the tenets was always doing whatever the military tells you to do. This I thought was incredibly stupid and hypocritical since our military is Constitutionally ruled by civilians.
Just another example that the tea party, and republican party as well, is just a pawn of big business. Retired generals are paid big money to lobby active generals into thinking whatever General Dynamics, Ratheon, Haliburton and others say is good for America.
I’m not an Obama fan, never was, nor was I a Reagan, Kennedy, Tricky Dick, Slick Willy, King George I or II (however, I am an ardent supporter of Jimmy Carter and no one will ever be able to convince me that he isn’t the most real, honest, moral person we’ve had in the Whitehouse since the U.S. was born)
But! Everyone is forgetting something!
War is NOT about the scam perpetrated before us in the media; it is not the utter bullshit that our government is conducting in the name of disrupting some perceived (or more correctly stated, “contrived”) moral turpitude in the name of freedom, or even to “protect democracy;” war is the means for the world’s elite to perpetuate their existence, maintain their wealth and status. People learned long ago that war was good for profits and regardless of the political landscape we will continue to have war as long as those who comprise the world’s elite are taught that we’ll not participate.
Think about this:
There has been a war, be it overt or covert involving this country since its very inception during virtually EVERY generation of the county’s existence and in our case, multiple times within one generation - Korea, Vietnam/Cambodia, numerous wars in Central America (Nicaragua, Grenada, Honduras, Haiti, Panama, Columbia, El Salvador, Bolivia, etc…), Angola, Lebanon, assistance with Israel at every turn of the week, Iraq (Persian Gulf War I and II), Afghanistan, Zaire, Sierra Leone, Bosnia/Herzegovina, Somalia and on and on…... For a good timeline of the constant wars, any of us have forgotten go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1970.E2.80.931979
The continuous need for profits=war. If we stop supporting the need for greed, there’ll be no war.
I don't believe that this President has any intention of pulling us out of either Iraq or Afghanistan. And I also don't think it matters much. Since the President also has no intention of taxing the rich, this country will collapse, after which we will be officially out of these wars.. Unfortunately, I am beginning to believe that we will "leave" Iraq and Afghanistan the same way the Soviets left Germany-as a bunch of soldiers from a country that no longer exists, getting home by any method available.
gawd JR, do I think that is possible, yes, but I hope you are very very wrong...
welcome back Boomer! I thought you had left us! I did say a little of what you said, war is all about money...everything you say is the truth and our government isn't doing a very good job of hiding those facts.
So, is it not true because we have a voluntary army a majority are in there for the love of country, patriots thru and thru and therefore making it easier for our gov. to brainwash these young people? They know it's their "job" and and the government knows it has it's little plastic GI Joes to play war games for the reasons you stated...
hi Truth, long time no see! Yes, great points, so true.
Somebody tell me we were always a corrupt nation, none of this secrecy is new, war has always been about money, the country does not care about sending it's young to fight unnecessary wars....it's all very scary
Sue - just needed a break to pursue another interest.
The truly sad thing is there are two reason kids join the military: The first and likely most prominent is to escape poverty and horrendous living conditions at home, second, to satisfy some misguided sense of duty/patriotism that's handed down from one generation to the next. Through the marketing schemes, more appropriately called "propaganda" we're seduced almost daily that it's our duty to fight the evil monsters banging at our borders. The slogan in the 50s and 60s was something like "fight communism in Korea/Vietnam so we don't have to fight it in our back yards."
For some reason, we guys take this bait very easily and the rest are there because it's a way out of horrid living conditions.
Flying Jr: You're a little off on your Vietnam history. Nixon in no way, shape or form ended the war. He had resigned before an accord was reached under Ford. Not only that, the peace talks had lasted six years and in the meantime Nixon was invading Cambodia and bomging everything that moved - or didn't.
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/vietnam/index-1969.html
I'd like to add that LBJ did not have a nervous breakdown. He had serious heart problems which is what took his life. Nixon won in 1968 and the war didn't end until 1975.
Thanks Leslie!
War is now a foundation of USA Inc. foreign policy. It has become institutionalized because of two primary factors. Corporate dominance of government and the notion of "American Exceptionalism" that excuses our bullying and bribing other nations to do as we say, not as we do.
At least during the Cold War they could maintain the illusion that wars were somehow indirectly protecting our "freedom".
But the bottom line is still the bottom line... It's about money and power.
Mr. Boomer: MY 18 year old son is leaving tomorrow morning for Boot Camp. I can tell you first-hand that his is NOT escaping poverty or horrendous living conditions at home nor is he trying to satisfity some misguided sense of duty/patriotism. Yes, he comes from a military family and yes we are VERY patriotic and PROUD of it, but that is NOT misguided. My son is a warrior.
Warriors, whether they are cops, firefighters, or soldiers, have an inbred obligation to protect. And my son wants to protect his country. THAT is something far too many people in this country know nothing about but need to learn and it’s something to be respected.
(This is not meant to be “snippy”, but I’m in an emotional place right now…war is not a pleasant subject for me, as I could very well be experiencing if first-hand if MY son is deployed!)
per ms. Hart...//(This is not meant to be “snippy”, but I’m in an emotional place right now…war is not a pleasant subject for me, as I could very well be experiencing if first-hand if MY son is deployed!)//
whatever happens, deployed or not.... I hope he is back with you as soon as possible... no equations, no politics... best to you.
Pam, you, your son, and your whole family are in our thoughts. I hope your son is NOT deployed! I hope there are no more deployments, just homecomings.
This might sound terrible to you and some others, but I don't believe the wars we are engaged in today have anything to do with defending our freedoms. Surely you can say Libya does not and Iraq and Afghanistan are wars we should have ended years ago. What do those countries have to do with our freedom?? This is a phrase the supporters of the military use and I just don't get it. Sorry.
This might sound terrible to you and some others, but I don't believe the wars we are engaged in today have anything to do with defending our freedoms. Surely you can say Libya does not and Iraq and Afghanistan are wars we should have ended years ago. What do those countries have to do with our freedom??
As a former serviceperson who found himself in a strange place for no good reason, I couldn't agree more with you. This is sloganeering, and we do our Armed Forces members no favors by pretending that their sacrifices are doing anything to protect our freedoms. Given the debt that is being incurred, quite frankly I'd say that these wars are having the opposite effect.
Glad you agree with me JR. I said that recently the wars and our broken economy sinking our nation is exactly what bin Laden had planned for us. We are making his dream come true.
Pawlenty is on Morning Joe right now talking the fuckin bullshit on the reason we are still fighting the wars...what a scumbag liar!! Its our security he says...we are in Afghanistan because of Pakistan!! So on and so on and so on.....he said the freedom word again...
June 25, 2011
The amount the U.S. military spends annually on air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan: $20.2 billion.
That's more than NASA's budget. It's more than BP has paid so far for damage during the Gulf oil spill. It's what the G-8 has pledged to help foster new democracies in Egypt and Tunisia.
'When you consider the cost to deliver the fuel to some of the most isolated places in the world — escorting, command and control, medevac support — when you throw all that infrastructure in, we're talking over $20 billion,' Steven Anderson tells weekends on All Things Considered guest host Rachel Martin. Anderson is a retired brigadier general who served as Gen. David Patreaus' chief logistician in Iraq.
SOURCE
@Sue, re: "tha malcontent" copying you: That's because he hasn't had an original thought in 20 years. All he does is rant and mouth stuff from WND. LOL!
Best wishes for Pam's son, goes without really saying.
On a side note, just saw Bachmann on the Today Show. She was interviewed by Matt Lauer and she couldn't answer most of the questions given to her without having Lauer repeat them to her after she went WAY off topic in her alleged answers.
I really hope she gets the republican nomination, she'll get humiliated more so than Palin did.
C, Paw Paw was on Scarborough this morning tripping all over his words when asked about the wars. What a fuckin joke he is! I missed the Bachmann interview, sadly
thanks for the link Shaw!
That war post was pretty funny HUH??! LOL
Sue,
This comment by "tha malcontent" was seen on a rightwing blog:
"tha malcontent said...
By the way, that Progressive Creep in these comments hasn't had original thought in that lump on her shoulders that she calls a head in 20 years. All she does is rant and rave about Sarah Palin and others who threaten the hell out of that Marxist Schmuck that she calls President and all the other Progressive douchebags that are screwing up this country.
June 28, 2011 9:48 AM
He must have read my comment here this morning, then used my words--because he doesn't know how to use his own--and ranted again.
He's used both your blog post and my blog comment and pretended they were original.
As I said, he and the conservatives have no original ideas, all they can do is copy progressives and hope no one notices.
He is such a little boy! His followers are dropping like flies, nobody wants to comment to his rants that make so sense at all! LOL
Thank you all for your well wishes to my son, my family and me.
I do have to agree with you Sue, in that we aren’t defending "our" freedoms…seems this war has been about taking away freedoms (pat downs @ airport, PATRIOT Act) yes, we did “get Bin Laden”, but are we really any safer? I haven’t been able to say “yes” to that one yet.
"This might sound terrible to you and some others, but I don't believe the wars we are engaged in today have anything to do with defending our freedoms. Surely you can say Libya does not and Iraq and Afghanistan are wars we should have ended years ago. What do those countries have to do with our freedom?? This is a phrase the supporters of the military use and I just don't get it."
I agree 100%
I would only add:
I support the troops. Yes, I can disagree with government war policies and still support the troops 100%.
I get pissed when Bush cut veteran benefits, did not make sure our troops had what they needed to be safe (like simple bullet proof vests) vehicles that were open to the enemies attack strategy, going to court to ensure soldiers would not get needed treatment claiming their ills were not combat related, and on , and on, and on.
Soldiers dying, yet we saw no reason to ask citizens to put up a little more money (sacrifice) to not go into multi-trillion dollar debts.
Yes, Bush was an idiot and hypocrite.
"As I said, he and the conservatives have no original ideas, all they can do is copy progressives and hope no one notices."
To be fair, I should NOT have included all conservatives. I meant to qualify that. I mean extremists like Ralphie. There are conservatives I read and listen to. David Frum comes to mind, Kathleen Parker, David Brooks, and Pamel D. Hart.
So I apologize for lumping the wackos with the thoughtful opposition.
you're most welcome Pam. Once more, what has happened to our country, our citizens, our freedoms, our troops, etc etc..is just how the terrorists planned. They can't bomb our whole nation, they can only hurt us by attacking our way of life through our economy, endless wars without borders is bankrupting us. They want us to live in constant fear of them but that part doesn't wash anymore unless the GOP feeds the fearful and throws out claims it is their party that will keep the country "safe".
I'm at the point of believing our government is deceiving us! I don't know how our young people can sign up for service to our country when they are "used" for reasons other than "protecting" us...I don't know if I'm right, wrong, or in between, these are just my personal opinions...
Yes Tom, we all support the troops. I'd actually like to see the troops demand the truth from our government, demand to know what they are doing over there. I'd love to see a halt to all new recruits too, to show our government we are TIRED of these wars and want PEACE!
To boot, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been huge fiscal black holes. The U.S. simply cannot afford to continue these wars, which have undoubtedly contributed to our current fiscal crisis.
More importantly, though, is the human toll of these wars. Countless soldiers and civilians are dead, countless more are injured and traumatized ... for what? It needs to stop.
thanks Ahab, I totally agree. I believe Pres. Obama will end the wars into his second term, even though that's not fast enough for me and most of America.
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