30,000 more troops.........thats the presidents answer to the quagmire in Afghanistan....
Mike Barnicle said it right this morning, he said the numbers we will be looking at are the casualties, how many young men and women have to die for a corrupt government over there. Will Afghanistan look any different in 18 months, in 5 years even? I have serious doubts. Actually I can't imagine that remote country ever changing.
I do understand the presidents reasoning, I do understand his fears, but we have been there for years and another 18 months will make a difference?? I don't see it, sorry Mr. President, I don't see it....
But President Obama is my president and I support him and feel his heavy burdens, and remember this is not his fault. He did not choose this war. I must put aside my anti-war stance and stand with my president.
IF America succeeds in 18 months what will that tell us about Obama's administration compared to Bushes? Sorry, with all the vileness coming from Cheney I had to get that in!
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He didn't choose this war, but he could have chosen to end it. I didn't vote for Obama, but I held out hope that he would show true courage [or hope and change, if you will]....and realize that we are not even fighting our enemy in Afghanistan. We were lured in to a quagmire, while the enemy slipped out the back door and into the neighbors house.
I respect your position Sue and I called for him to return the prize of peace. I'm just going to stay out of this for now because even though I adamantly oppose this I will try to be quite because there is some respect there unlike bush where there was only total disdain.
Insurgent and one fly, don't misunderstand me, I said I support the president but I vehemently disagree with this strategy. I hate these wars and 8 years is long enough. I desperately wanted Obama to say he was starting a withdrawal, but he is the president and I will leave it at that. It looks like we will have 18 months to ponder and pray for the troops most importantly.
I like Michael Moore's suggestion to draft only the children of the top wealthiest 5%.
I share everyones' misgivings. I've been flopping around like a dying fish.
The last 8 years have been mishandled by a lying, mercenary administration. As I watched the president last night I couldn't help but contrast his earnest sincere appearance to that of Bush's smirky lying face.
I'm not thrilled with his decision but he did say during his campaign that he would step up the war in that far away land. He has also put a limit on our time, which, of course General McCain - who spent most of his war experience in prison - has condemned. Obama's time limit serves as a message to Afghanistan that they better get their house in order.
GOB, I like the idea of drafting any in Congress who votes for war but has never served.
Leslie I know how you feel. I realized last night what a massive quagmire Obama inherited, and also his fears of what will happen if we leave too soon. It's a total friggin mess no matter how you look at it. Ones things for sure, if he succeeds we will see how much a failure Bush/Dick were and ARE! The difference in intelligence is quite obvious.
Truth 101 has had some very good comments on his latest post. It's all very, very sad.
When Bush was elected my immediate thought during his acceptance speech was: the first thing that cocky little son-of-a-bitch is going to do is get us in a war.
When he was elected the second time, I was stunned.
Moral: we liberals cannot depend on the intelligence of the general public.
Frodo looked at the faces of those young people, all dressed in gray, and he could not help but wonder about their fate. Frodo watched the President shake hands, and have his picture taken with them, and he imagined Dover Air Force Base, and home comings to come. Frodo's heart is breaking, ahead of time.
Frodo's mind tells him that what we must do emanates from miscalculation and sheer stupidity. That is, he knows, just like every other war.
George W. Bush had better be damn glad his physical path does not cross that of the Hobbit. Frodo would kick his ass, literally.
Sue, you and I are mostly on the same page. I oppose the policy, not the man.
Frodo last night I thought the Cadets faces looked stunned as Obama said the words, 30,000 troops deployed soon. Then afterwards there were smiles from the crowd and picture taking, It felt weird to me.
Tom I'm feeling so emotional right now and want all my friends around me here, I love you guys!
Leslie when Bush and Dick were elected (stole the elections) my Mom and I said we were headed for World War 3! What a fuckin 8 years we endured!
Don't anyone think that down the road this decision will make things different. There will always be a war this country has to fight.
We did our job and the numbers are there to stop/defund or whatever but it will never happen and it's the same for HC.
I swear those who make the votes that have the power to do the right thing will never do so because many have been threatened with their lives. That includes Obama as well.
One Fly are you saying repugs threaten dems? I think all of us citizens would be horrified if we knew the truth of what goes on behind closed doors in Washington. The older I get the clearer it becomes. Our country is so fucked up and by our trusted leaders, it's happening right NOW! We are pawns in their chess game. And you religious people who think we need a moral Christian leader you are sadly mistaken too, there is no such thing!
It would be worse with the likes of a self professed christian in charge-no question.
What I'm saying Sue is that it's not the repugs as such but the most powerful in the world who pull the strings behind the scenes. It is the only thing that makes any sense given the crimes committed in the last decade or so that there has not been even one bit of accountability. I'm still waiting for Rover and Miers to testify under oath about the judge purging. They'll be in any day now.
It's all lip service to get minds off the real issues. Before you know it a couple 4-year terms have gone by and it the same as it ever was.
These treasonous bastards knew from the very beginning nothing was ever ever going to happen to them and they went about their business and didn't even try to hide it.
The battle is lost.
I think one of the lessons of Vietnam was if you are involved in a war, you must fight to end it as quickly and as expediently as possible. That was the rational the North used in the Civil War, and the Allies in World War II.
Bob Schieffer on CBS talked about the strategy of fighting a war with a time clock going...Chris Matthews said the same thing, as did some Dems and Republicans.
If I'm the leader of the insurgency, I get my troops to lay low until the American withdrawl takes place- its what the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese did, and it worked.
Obama inherited a mess, courtesy of Bush and Cheney. I hope for the sake of our troops and the nation that this works, but I'm pessimistic.
Frodo: Cadets are not allowed to flinch a muscle until they are told to be at ease. Those few cadets caught sleeping by the cameras will probably get a few demerits.
Hugh: "Bob Schieffer on CBS talked about the strategy of fighting a war with a time clock going...Chris Matthews said the same thing, as did some Dems and Republicans."
I used to have a love affair with CBS. No more. I have come to dislike Curic as much as Schieffer. They are too quick to jump on the negative band wagon and are totally unobjective. There were plenty of Dems who have defended the time limit - last night and today.
war is shitty. i find it hard to support it under any circumstance. support obama? sure. i'm part of the overwhelming majority that voted for him. but like you, Sue, and Tom and so many others, i can disagree with him at the same time.
The only war that should be supported is when our land or culture is threatened. Obama almost made that case. I am not convinced, I can not and will not throw my support behind this decision. Just because I voted for him, does not mean I have to agree him. I look forward to the day our troops come home.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and go back and read the transcript. “30,000” is not the only thing Obama said. He laid out an end game with great clarity while calling for a balance at home of all programs affecting Americans.
As for the cadets of West Point, they are not there to learn how to play chess. They are there to become military leaders. Don’t you think they know what is involved in war?
As for a ticking clock, Obama said that is the only way to ensure the Afghans will take him seriously and prepare to protect themselves. He also said his decision was made in our “national interest,” and I figure as commander-in-chief he knows a hell of a lot more about that than I do.
War is hell, but good vs. evil ain’t going away, so I’ll support the good and whatever it takes to keep it from being overpowered.
BJ
All very excellent and thoughtful comments here which I agree with. It's a complicated situation, to say the least.
Good vs. evil is sometimes defined by which side of the bomb you are on -- if you are throwing it or catching it.
Jerry Critter: You are absolutely right. OBL will tell you how evil we all are. BJ
B.J.: "As for the cadets of West Point . . . They are there to become military leaders. Don’t you think they know what is involved in war?"
It's certainly a good point, except for a couple of things:
I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are a lot of them there who aren't even considering a career in the military beyond the obligatory two years after graduation. They simply want the education, which is tuition free. I'm not being cynical nor am I criticizing them - it's simply the way it is.
Sometimes people, especially young people, cannot really appreciate the enormity of something until they are thrust into the middle of it. On a lesser scale, a person can't really appreciate migraine pain until they get hit with it. Only then do they understand why a victim begs for an ax.
A friend of mine signed up with the Marines during Nam. He was gung-ho with enthusiasm - going to battle and doing his thing for his country. He returned completely embittered and became very active in the peace movement. That was enough war for him. A conservative newphew who went to VMI had the same experience.
Maybe the stunned expressions on some of their faces came from having to face the reality of a hard cold world for the very first time.
Thanks, Leslie, you make good points. Before Operation Desert Storm, my son, in the National Guard, went to California for desert warfare training. He called me and said, "Mom, I did great, I only got killed once." Thank God, he stayed stateside and worked in supplies operations at Camp Shelby, Mississippi. Had he been deploye, Mom would have thought about that phone call with every breath. BJ
BJ, I can't imagine being the mom of sons and daughters who are sent overseas. If the phone's rings wouldn't give me a heart attack, the waiting would.
Leslie: I got your link and saved it. I have been trying to get off this computer for two hours. (Know what I mean? Did you know that when the Vietnam War escalated fatalities were occurring so rapidly that the military was not prepared to deal with informing next-of-kin, so they had Yellow Cab drivers deliver the telegrams. People would see a Yellow Cab coming down the street and faint. I'll read your blog a little later. Thanks. BJ
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