This country is in deep trouble. I have NEVER seen such disgusting filthy antics from a political party in desperation mode in my whole life. I thought the John Kerry swift boat ads were sickening, but people you haven't seen anything until you see this. Rightwingers I dare you to come to my blog and say one word. In fact I don't even want to hear your thoughts or apologies. The Christian right is seeking the face of Satan and here we go... Those who want to conjure up Satan and Jesus for the holy showdown, here you go and it's coming straight to a neighborhood near you Coloradoans. I really pity you to have to live with this, which will go down in our history books as the most disgraceful treatment of a US sitting president in our lifetime...
.....
Biden Expands Health Care Coverage to DACA Recipients
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President Biden announced that he will be expanding Affordable Care Act
coverage to DACA recipients.
3 hours ago
81 comments:
Never underestimate what the mind fucked can do is what it should have been said.
The same was tried two years ago and went down 80-20 or some other big number. The wording has changed slightly with this personhood bs it's the same people and the same effort this time as well.
This will not pass but for damn sure every person who votes for it is one too many. Colorado has more than it's share of these people.
Just saw a poll that gopers are going to prevail across this great land.
I turned the video off halfway through.
I've been around a long time. And I must admit, this midterm election has probably been the sleaziest hatefest I've ever seen. It tops anything from the Vietnam/Watergate Era....however,the video did include Richard Nixon among the Pantheon of Great Baby Killers of the Century. I don't know if that means anything....
Oh what the hell....no more softballing it.......these people are off the deep end. Ditto Heads and Zero Brains.
And the American public deserves better than some of the sideshow freaks being paraded out there as potential legislators.
Let me know when the rest of the world stops laughing at us.
two years ago was it all as evil as this ad OneFly? They are calling the president the angel of death, this makes me speechless....but I guess we should not be surprised, the religious right are showing their true colors, evil.
I hate polls, cell phones are one big reason, but what I'm hearing is dems are catching up in the polls that once showed them trailing badly. Look at Pennsylvania, Sestak has pulled ahead of Toomey and will win!
The abortion issue is the rightwings platform when we have problems in this country like we haven't seen in generations. They believe they are Gods army fighting for the unborn, there really is no stopping such a train wreck of evil. Hugh sometimes I don't know how we go on and continue to fight for the salvation of this country. Thank God for the strong and determined in our party. I'm afraid I am old and tired and just plain sick to my stomach with what I see and hear coming from so-called Americans...
If you listen to the so called "beltway media" that's what they all say One Fly... Dems are going to lose...
Well that may be on a generic ballot which is what they are basing it on. But, when they put the names in there... Most of the Dems are ahead or moving up while the R's are falling behind.
You can't listen to them, they are just trying to sell papers as they used to say. It fits their narrative to have them say it is going to be a blowout for their GOPer friends.
Of course it wasn't as bad Sue. But it's real bad now. It's so bad this country could actually turn this country over to the likes of those who chose to live in the dark ages of the wayback machine. This poll smells bad for sure.
Amerikan Taliban plain and simple. It is the very same.
The bottom line is, WE HAVE TO TURN OUT IN DROVES...AND VOTE.
As to the video...I couldn't stomach it. It is designed to reinforce shitknucklehead thinking, which we are not going to change. So...VOTE!
you're right JJ, we could never change the minds of such evil wolves in sheeps clothing. BTW, I changed my title from Christian scum to Christian group. I don't want to sound like those scumbags.
Hey, scum is as scum does. Or, put another way, scum by any other name is still scum.
Sure looks like a Hitler propaganda film to me. I couldn't watch it all either. Was thinking of putting it on FB but why promote this disgusting crap? A blog is different because most people who come here have some intelligence. Of course, there are one or two notable exceptions. . . .
Leslie, I agree the less air time this trash gets the better. I don't know if this ad is just for Colorado or will be shown all over the country. Do you know OneFly?
I saw it on Ed's show but when I loaded it I had to turn off the volume. It's horrific!
JJ, today I was called a FUCKING DUMB ASS-HOLE, so I'm just trying to be gracious. We all know the truth of the scumbags...
Hell, I would vote against it even if it was not a vote for Obama's agenda.
What a fucking piece of crap!
People who believe this shit are fucking pieces of crap.
And I am trying to be nice.
yes you are nice Jerry and I appreciate that about you. All us liberals are nice as a matter of fact, eat your hearts out mean, nasty wingnuts! As you all can see I'm trying to stay calm and civil tonight....the good will prevail against the evil, believe it!
That is a cool ad! Thanks for sharing it.
And tnlib can always be counted on to prove out Godwin's Law. Keep hope alive, tnlib!
Abortion kills a beating heart, so those of us against it do so from a logical foundation.
Having said that, I will not be voting for 62. If a woman takes medicine that inadvertently kills a fetus, she is a murderer, and that's not the right way to go about ending abortions in America.
If it passes, which I highly doubt it will, it would be immediately challenged and knocked down, thereby solidifying the incorrectly decided Roe v Wade decision.
Like I said in the previous thread, the Republicans are potentially poised to make strong gains this year. It is only in their idiotic selection of candidates and hyperbolic ads like this that the Dems are still breathing. Here's to hoping (if you're a Democrat - I myself am an independent) that they continue to act so stupidly.
It was Bush/Paulsen who instituted TARP.....The health-care plan (which I also opposed, BTW) is literally identical to the one that Romney signed in MA/the ones that Republicans offered in 1993 (as an alternative to Hillary-care)/the bipartisan Bennett-Wyden plan that had as many as 9 Republican co-sponsors.....Yeah, the stimulus plan was a turkey, but so, too, was the Bush tax rebate plan that did little more than blow another hole in the deficit.....Look, I'm not a humongous fan of Obama, either (he's a liberal, I'm a moderate), but to constantly paint this fundamentally decent fellow as a pinko is ludicrous.....But, sure, keep on saying it if it makes you feel better.
silverteapot, you're joking right??
Murder is murder, so therefore war and the murder of innocent by- standers is in your eyes right up there with murder of a microscopic fetus,right? But guess what, you NEVER see wingnuts oppose war or war funding, nor do you ever see wingnuts protest war. Calling our president the angel of death when nothing he has done in his presidency contributes to abortion is SICK, demented and evil. There are less abortions under democrats and that's a fact you can not dispute.
no matter how loud the evil rightwing religious fanatics scream and act like morons, they will NEVER rid the world of abortion. When will they stop playing God? Nobody is listening to you idiots so give it up!! Nobody in this world is PRO-ABORTION, give it up sickos!
What a chillingly horrific ad. Especially the "Omen" or apocolyptic music and images of President Obama. But the fear and horror the music brought me were against the people who perpetrated this ad. They are the scariest people ever, talk about the angel of death! And what they're saying about healthcare isn't even true.
I've found that people who accuse others of following Godwin's Law of either having blinders on or being ignorant of history or both.
What's so disturbing about this video is that it takes a page out of history with its fear tactics and its distortions and lies. Tell a lie often enough . . . Sound familiar?
I guess it's acceptable to send our citizens off to war to murder and be murdered. And I guess it's also acceptable to murder prisoners, innocent or otherwise. Talk about hypocrisy and government interference.
Many women who are pro-choice opt not to abort, but they - not religious kooks or the government - have a right to decide what's best for them. This especially holds true in cases of rape - by strangers or family members - or if the birth threatens the mother's life. Certainly a woman should not be charged with murder if she has a spontaneous abortion - miscarriage to the ignorant - as has been proposed in some states. Unless all these holier-than-thous want to financially support a severely handicapped child throughout their lives they need to butt out. I sure as hell haven't seen much evidence of them rushing to adopt even "normal" children, especially minorities.
The bottom line: I don't think the government or anyone else has any business in MY womb.
exactly Mauigirl, it is those evildoers who are nothing but fearmongering for political gain, those Christians scare me to death. After 8 yrs of lies and fearmongering by the Bush people I thought the country would have grown. No such luck..
Leslie the hypocrites will never listen to reasonable debate. They have a mindset and will die defending it. Well same for us, we will die defending the rights of women to make decisions for themselves when it comes to their own bodies. I don't know anyone who would use abortion as birth control but the righties act like it's normal procedure and paid for by the government. LIES, LIES, LIES
OMG!!!!!! My jaw is on the floor! What an evil, EVIL ad. I don't think caffeine is going to help me with this one.
Pure Teabuggery!
The lies are too numerous to list.
Obama was magnificent here in Portland yesterday.
Sue ~ You obviously have no concept of why Christians and others are opposed to abortion, much less the fact that their tax dollars will be funding abortion here in the US and overseas.
We see abortion as MURDER. Have you ever investigated what happens to these babies who are aborted? The barbaric procedures which are used to take their lives is horrifying and heartbreaking. They DO suffer...greatly. How painful do you think it is to be torn into pieces, or how do you think it feels to be chemically burned alive with saline or to have scissors stabbed into the back of your head and then be cut into sections to be removed from your "MOTHER'S" body? Have you ever considered what they suffer with the permission of the ONE PERSON who should hold them lovingly and protect them?
The reason Obama is shown as the angel of death is because he is the one who is sending our tax money overseas and allowing it to be used here to pay for what I just described. The portrayal is accurate.
I'm amazed that you can get so angry over a cartoon picture over Obama's face when you don't seem to be upset at all over the plight of millions of murdered babies every year...MILLIONS!!!! It is government sanctioned mass murder.
73% of the American public supports a woman's right to a legal abortion.
Just as we would not stand for a government that would force a woman to abort a pregnancy, we will not stand for a government that will force her to carry one.
Either one is government infringement on a private decision.
And I've always said that to be morally consistent a anti-abortionist must be against ALL wars justified or not, since in all wars fetuses and babies are killed.
If people accept the deaths of fetuses and babies as collateral damage in war, then to be morally consistent they must accept what happens in an abortion as collateral damage as a result of careless men and women, or a rapist.
The world is not perfect. Learn to be a grown-up.
BTW: George W. Rupublican president with a Republican House and Senate for SIX years did not challenge a woman's right to an abortion. George W. Embarrassment to America could have had his GOPers introduce legislation to challenge the law.
He didn't.
And anyone with a functioning brain knows why.
Let's have Linda back up her claims that the US government will be spending people's tax dollars for abortions.
Either produce that evidence or admit you're spreading more lies.
BTW, Linda, where were your outrage for living babies and children when the insurance companies threw them off their rolls just before the Health Care law took effect, because these living babies and children had pre-existing conditions and that was not profitable for the insurance companies.
This happened just recently.
The insurance companies' execs are laughing their asses off at people like you who are the first to show such humanity for embryos, but are silent over living chidren being denied health care and facing possible death.
You are consumed by illogic and hatred and not to be believed in anything you write.
LISA is against helping sick babies who have no control over where their parents are when they are born. Lisa sounds angry with the fact that we may spend money saving babies' lives.
Lisa is angry that this country would save the life of a living baby because that living baby may be the child of an illegal worker.
The Baby Jesus is crying.
But all the GOPers agree that Lisa has her values correct in the GOP way: Save the embryos! But who gives a rat's ass about a living baby--ESPECIALLY AN ILLEGAL WORKER'S BABY!
Darwin help me, but it is truly difficult to live in the same country with these people.
Lindas comment is exactly the reason I did not want conservatives with a closed mind commenting on this post. How dare you think liberals, the president and myself are giddy proponents of abortion! I see pictures of 12 week old fetuses, I'm not stupid I know what an abortion is. Pro lifers are NOT pro abortion and you high and mighty holier than thou Christians will never understand what that means! WE DO NOT CONDONE MURDERING BABIES! You and your ilk are nothing but liars when you say our tax dollars go for abortions! I'm sick to death of arguing this subject. Go protest the fucking war and the murder of babies overseas when bombs drop on their homes ripping their limbs off!
I'm sorry Shaw I delete lisa, and I'm gonna delete Linda too if she comes back with more idiotic ranting. Fuck them!!
they are not worth our breath and time Shaw. I can't stomach living in this country with them either. I have never witnessed so much hate and close-mindedness in my life. These people are truly evil...
Jittery thats how I feel right now, coffee will just make it worse. My bp is through the roof right now but thanks for commenting!
TC I will be by to see you tonight. Did you see the pres. in person? If I could I would give him a big bear hug....
I had a highly respected cousin who was a Methodist minister and worked as a missionary for 10 years in India. He was a true scholar - not one of your Bible-thumping know-nothing zealots. He always advised us to beware of people who claim to know what God said, or Jesus said, and who were always quoting Bible verses. He'd say these people were far from being Christians. Talking the talk is quite different from walking the walk. One of the things they were lacking, he said, was compassion.
"Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble."
1 Peter 3:8
"Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ."
Galatians 6:2
"He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done."
Proverbs 19:17
"Remember those in prison as if you were their fellow prisoners, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering."
Hebrews 13:3
"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?"
1 John 3:17
My Bible lesson for today.
Thank You Leslie, we could use a little spiritual guidance after this hateful video! :-)
Spiritual guidance may get you into heaven, but it sure isn't worth a damn when it comes to running a country.
I don't know, Sue, I think that there's a fair amount of ranting (can you say Olbermann?)/fuzzy thinking (can you say that professor from Dartmouth who totally absolved the Democrats for Vietnam?) on both sides of the aisle these days. And I certainly don't think that deleting Linda is very "liberal" thing to do. I mean, I had always thought that free speech, open discourse, and an open mind were some of the central tenets of liberalism......As for this particular issue, I have always considered myself a strong pro-choice voter. But I'm sober about it and I respect the other side. Yes, this video was hyperbolic and inflammatory, and, yes, it personally turned me off. But all that Linda seems to be doing here is passionately arguing her position. I see nothing even remotely resembling a "personal attack".
I appreciate your comments Will. I don't believe I have ever deleted Linda even though we have very different viewpoints, but her last comment was filled with disgusting inaccuracies and over the top descriptions about abortion procedures. We all know what an abortion is, she went totally over board. I also stated in the post I did not want the righties coming here and defending the video. She did that PLUS some...
Jerry it sounds like you are referring to Dubya?
The political junkie in me is fascinated at the new meme the republicans are taking.
I'd love to see their internal polls because when really ridiculous attacks or 180' strategy changes occur it usually means that side sees itself as losing with not much time left.
The reality is that most of us are sympathetic to the pro life position but when it comes to making it the law of the land we prefer to mind our own business.
Take this silly ad for what it shows is happening to the republicans. The silent majority is not tea baggingf idiots like your faithful trolls Sue. Or shit stirring bores like Silverfish. It's people of conscience like th rest of us who won't be fooled by the banzai of bullshit coming from the right.
Ay Ayatollah, when the ads get as evil as this one it has to mean something. Like OF said, they tried this 2 years ago and it failed. So they'll keep trying as they get nastier and nastier. They are that little fringe group called Gods army, they'll fight til the end...
Can you just lay your hand on my head, it's been a long day....
They've been conditioned to believe they're God's Army. They're too stupid and deluded to know that they're Cheney and Gingrich's corporate army of stooges.
Where do you want my hand Sue?
just on my forehead sweetie, and can ya say a little prayer for me so I sleep well tonight?
Yeah, she may have been a little too graphic, now that I think about it......Her heart, though, I still maintain that it's probably in the right place.
Her "heart" is in the "right" place? Hmmmm.
I've never found it necessary for a blog owner to have a reason to delete a comment.
I guess it depends on whether you want a blog or an echo-chamber/chat-room.
Sue... You said:
"But guess what, you NEVER see wingnuts oppose war or war funding, nor do you ever see wingnuts protest war."
Guess what, I am a "wingnut" that is opposed to war unless it is in response to an act of agression.
As for abortion...
This "wingnut" accually believes the moment life becomes viable ie: can be sustained either without or with life support ending it is murder.
As to the wonderness of Obama, well now that is "wingnuttery" at its finest!
thanks Ayatollah, I slept like a log!
Will you're right about a blog with just one view commenting, it can get stale. Linda usually sounds so off the wall with her teabaggery comments it can make for some good back and forth. lisa on the other hand is not allowed here anymore and I won't be surprised to find out she is right in the middle of the big sleuth-out.
Leslie I have to admit, I did feel a little intimidated last night by Wills comment. I don't like it when I start to question my own judgement on whether or not I let a comment stand. I do get alot of friends saying let the wingnut comments stay, it shows their stupidity.
RN I'm glad you oppose war, and WE ALL can truthfully say we are not pro-abortion. Some wingnuts think Obama is though and I find that totally disgusting. I don't even want comments like that here.
Like I say, you have a right to delete any comments you want, including mine. While I rarely agree with SF, RN or Will, I don't see them trying to take over your blog by diverting all the attention to themselves.
Linda is beyond passive aggressive - a pattern of expressing negative feelings in indirect, unhelpful ways, and, a form of covert abuse. She has no interest in discussing the merits or demerits of the subject at hand in any meaningful way. She deliberately disrupts and then, of all things, gets pissed when people challenge her! And then she pouts and "threatens" not to come back - as if anyone gives a damn.
tnlb, what specifically have I said that you disagree with? Earlier in this post, I criticized the new crop of Republican candidates and vociferously defended President Obama (against charges that he's a Communist). I'm strongly pro-choice and I opposed the Iraq war from day one (well, WELL, before Clinton, Biden, and Kerry did). Yes, I'm a little more of a skeptic on the left's economic/health-care/energy visions. But neither am I a tea-partier, either.....Is there what, some sort of litmus test with you?
Will: I stand corrected. Should have been more careful. Sorry.
yes Will we agree you are not a teabagger.
Leslie I guess I leave Linda up because her teabagger mentality shocks me so much I feel I need to respond to her, unlike lisa. You know I would NEVER delete any of your comments! :-)
I was reading Pams comments about the fake grandmazaza and how a gramma would never talk the way that woman talks on her blog, so it got me thinking.... I really should tone down my rant posts too. Would you all agree??
I blame my rants on Ed Schultz tho. :-)
I think women should be able to spend their health care dollars (regardless of where they come from) however they see fit -- this includes using them to pay for a legal medical procedure.
This is another amendment designed to get the Righties to the polls -- the Right has no intention of acting to repeal RVW, because it is too good a tool they can use to get their base motivated.
A few days ago I received three large flyers in the mail from Republican Tim Wirgau (he's running for the TN state house). TWO of them advocated I get out and vote to protect my right to hunt in TN. That's right, TN residents get to vote to protect their hunting rights this election.
I was unaware that anyone was proposing this right be taken away...
w, the right is all about scare tactics to get their party to vote for them, what else do they offer?? They have been screaming about Obama taking away their guns, it's too funny actually. Rightwing voters are just so dumb...isn't it a shame?
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Sue/tnlb. I do have to confess, though, I am in fact a very big fan of darjeeling and assam.....Gunpowder, too.
I sent you an email Sue. Your cousin - S.
Southern Beale or Nashville Scene had something about this awhile ago. I wonder what happens if people vote NO. Will hunters not be allowed to hunt? It's the most nonsensical bill I've seen come down the pike ever - even for TN.
My last comment was in response to W-dervish. Must be still recovering from that yard sale!
Good Lord Sue...I just posted on the same thing....
This ad goes over the top and really has nothing to do about the issue of abortion and everything to do with sending subliminal messages about Barack Obama...
The right is spending as much money as the special interest groups and the Koch Brothers can pump into them...
Obviously, the democrats must be doing something right to get the republicans this desparate and this willing to pump all this money into anything that will defeat Obama...
The election must also be alot closer than anyone is being truthful about....
TAO it's starting to look like this election is alot closer than previously thought. I find it hard to believe the massive number of voters who came out in '08 would be so disillusioned that they stay home this time. Bull! The GOP and its ilk wants the country to believe that but I do not. The voters are much too smart, they know you can't fix Bushes failures in just 2 short years!
TAO,
It must have something to do with abortion, since the conditioned dogs seem to "get it."
Silverfiddle, I thought cool was something like Cab Calloway in a zoot suit crooning Mercer's "Blues in the Night." You're way ahead of me.
Linda, You have a right to express your opinions. Abortion is the dog-whistle. You're Pavlov's dog.
For anybody else who is wondering what they are talking about, here goes.
What are they referring to?
The decision by the Obama administration to lift the "Gag rule," adopted by Reagan, repealed by Clinton, and reinstated by Bush, also known as the "Mexico City Policy."
What is my source for information? I found an article by just such an NGO, Population Action International. Admittedly, their view is biased in favor of family planning and assistance. Maybe that means they are evil ghoulies. You would have to ask Linda or Silverfiddle. Whether or not U.S. tax dollars directly assist these international NGOs in funding or referring abortions could be a matter of some debate. Certainly extra funds make a wide variety of activities more possible.
Here is their position on why this rule negatively impacts women's health globally.
How the Global Gag Rule Harms Women’s Health
The gag rule has forced closures and cutbacks by leading family planning groups. Family planning organizations that reject the gag rule have been forced to close clinics, cut services and increase fees. They have been unable to obtain donated contraceptives on which the women and men they serve depend. In a number of countries, established health care referral networks are collapsing as key family planning organizations downsize and struggle to cope with budget cuts and rapidly declining stocks of contraceptive supplies.
The gag rule has adversely affected the supply of contraceptives and condoms. Shortly after the reinstatement of the gag rule, shipments of U.S.-donated condoms and contraceptives completely ceased to 16 developing countries, primarily in Africa. Leading family planning agencies in another 16 countries—mostly in Africa—have lost access to much-needed U.S. condoms and contraceptives as a result of their refusal to accept the gag rule restrictions.
Cutbacks in family planning services are likely to contribute to an increase in abortions. Research from several countries reveals a lower reliance on abortion in areas where contraceptive use is higher, reflecting greater access to family planning services.
The gag rule restricts open communication between women and their trusted health care providers. Prohibiting organizations from counseling and/or providing referrals on abortion hurts their ability to provide comprehensive health care needed or requested by their clients. The principles of informed consent demand that health care providers not withhold information on services that are available and/or legal in that country, or that could prevent injury or even save women’s lives.
The gag rule negatively impacts HIV/AIDS prevention efforts. Family planning providers have developed the expertise, services and information to counsel individuals about safer sex, help people avoid high-risk behaviors, and screen for and treat sexually transmitted infections (STIs) that increase susceptibility to HIV infection. Although it applies only to family planning funds, the gag rule prevents the United States from working with some of the most effective front-line partners serving two of the populations at greatest risk of STIs, including HIV/AIDS—women and youth.
What do you think? Obama is the Angel of Death? Or Tea Partiers are just desperate inciters of hatred?
Thanks for all the work you put into that comment junior!
It's the latter, teabaggers are inciters of hate. There are less abortions under democrats because we care about birth control.... contraceptives, womens health clinics, family planning...etc. etc...
Junior ~ You are waaaay over-analyzing this, and I'm no Pavlov's dog, thank you.
This is a simple case of people who do not want to support with their tax dollars the murder of unborn babies anywhere in the world...PERIOD.
No matter what the other side issues involved are, no one should have the right to force me or anyone else to help to pay for someone here in the US or in Kenya or to abort their baby.
There is misery in every part of the world, and Americans should help to aid people in as many places and in as many ways as possible, but paying for abortion should not be one of them. You are not focusing on the central objection...it is not the money...it is THE MURDER that we object to.
I know that you think that the powers that be use the "whistle" of abortion to get conservatives all stirred up to do battle, but you are wrong if you think that this election has a one-issue focus.
I can dig it. Thank you. Peace.
Linda, have you ever thought about your tax dollars that went to support the war effort in Iraq that, as collateral damage, killed pregnant women and their fetuses as well as living children?
I hope you were out marching against your money being used to kill women, fetuses, and babies during war.
Now perhaps you take the stand that war is terrible and people die--even fetuses and babies.
Well, life is difficult, and in some instances, women choose not to continue a pregnancy--for whatever their personal, private reasons. Those reasons are actually no one's business except the woman and her doctor's.
If you support war for ANY reason, even for self-defense, you are being a hypocrite--condoning the slaughter of innocents in the one instance--collateral damage in war, but taking an unmovable stand against abortion, no matter what the circumstances are.
You cannot be against abortion and for war and be morally consistent.
Were you marching in the streets when GWB was planning his Iraq attack? Afterall, living babies and fetuses were killed as a result of that war of choice.
Shaw ~ No one is for war. War has been described as "hell", but in many instances it has been a necessary evil to stop aggression, preserve freedom and, yes, to preserve life. If you don't see that some war is necessary, then I have nothing more to add...you won't see reason.
I can say the same about YOUR hypocrisy in being supportive of a woman's right to kill her unborn baby, but being completely against all war. It seems to me that one who is totally against all war, MUST be totally against all abortion.
All unborn babies are innocent and helpless and at the mercy of society. How can you agree to allow their chance at life to be taken away, many times simply because their existence is an "inconvenience" to their mother and father...or an embarrassment? We are talking about ending their life!
First of all, Linda, your logic is terribly faulty.
I said nothing in my post about my being against war. Go back and read it. I accept war as a consequence of the failures we humans are, just as I accept abortion as part of the failures we humans are. IOW, I am consistent in my beliefs.
You are not.
If one is against abortion in all instances (actually, I don't know for sure if you are against abortion in all instances, but most anti-abortion people are), one must be against all wars in all instances--even self defense. That is morally consistent.
You list only selfish reasons for a woman to want an abortion. Of course you know that those are not the only reasons women and girls seek abortions.
What if a woman's life is endangered by her pregnancy? Should the state force her to die and possibly leave her living children motherless? That's what is happening in Guatemala, where abortions in all instances are illegal. A woman who suffered an ectopic pregnancy was left to die--no doctor would perform the necessaary removal of the embryo for fear of being thrown in jail. The woman died, leaving her living children motherless.
Is this the sort of fate you hope to impose on American women?
Here's another real instance that happened in Brazil. A 12-year old child was impregnated by her step-father. The mother of the little girl took her child to an abortionist. The Catholic Church promptly ex-communicated the mother, but did nothing to the father.
We do not live in a perfect world, Linda. If you accept the fact that wars happen and that fetuses, pregnant women and living children die in war, to be morally consistent, you must accept the fact that women have the right to deal with unwanted or forced pregnancies. Not the government.
I am consistent in my belief here.
You are not.
BTW, you cannot be for abortion in some instances either. That is not morally consistent.
If you believe abortion is murder, it is not permissable even to save a woman's life.
I do not share that belief.
thanks for the very logic that makes so much sense to us in the pro-choice arena Shaw. There really is no point arguing with Linda, she has a one track mind.
Shaw,
You're trying to get Linda to be consistent on this issue and I can tell you, she won't. Me, I'm for a woman's right to choose AND capital punishment. At least my message of death is consistent. I still can't believe how some people can be FOR capital punishment while being AGAINST a woman's right to choose...and vice-versa, for that matter. I keep getting this religious touting from them from something written(by man) over 2000 years ago. It's utter nonsense and chimp chat.
CDM ~ As a Darwinist, I'm sure that you would be very familiar with chimp chat...
Shaw ~ I am actually sympathetic to the medical emergency situation you described with the ectopic pregnancy. That is a medical emergency where probably both mother and baby would die, so I would say that aborting the baby in this situation would be the only step to take.
Also, in the case of incest or rape, the mother had no choice in the matter of how her pregnancy began, so I am sympathetic to that situation also.
I think, however, that with the majority of abortion cases, the abortion is being used as a birth control method, or is being done for the convenience of the mother or because it is an unwanted baby. Some young women, I think, are encouraged to abort their baby and are not given enough information to see what the possible consequences of abortion are...guilt, depression, infection and even death.
It is simply that I am heartbroken for the millions of human lives lost to abortion every year. I think it is wrong. This is not a political view, it is heartfelt.
Linda you are no more heart sick at the thought of dead babies than we are. The problem is the religious right is blaming liberals and President Obama for abortions and that is absolutely wrong and unfair!
Sue ~ I don't think that conservatives blame liberals for abortion...we just don't want to be forced to fund a procedure that we believe to be murder. I know that most liberals don't like how high abortion numbers are either, but you have to admit that far more conservatives are opposed to abortion on demand and late term abortions.
No, I'm not gonna argue "my party cares more than your party" That's not something I care to discuss because we are both partisans.
The way to reduce abortion is not by making it illegal. It is education and knowing about options to prevent conception.
Jerry this is why there is less abortion under dem leadership. Dems educate women on birth control, they fund contraceptives. It's all about health clinics for prevention not performing abortions like the right will have you believe.
Abortions cost more money than birth control. Republicans are all about money. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Abortion provided "on demand" as a birth control method is a myth -- and one of the more ridiculous ones at that.
What the anti-abortion movement is really about is controlling women, as the nonprofit organization Our Bodies Ourselves reveals...
"anti-abortion legislation was part of a backlash to the growing movements for suffrage and birth control -- an effort to control women and confine them to their traditional childbearing role".
Fear, hate and Religion are the tools the Conservative ruling class uses to manipulate the rabble. You can't get the majority to vote for plutocracy by telling them the truth.
Yes, Linda, I am familiar because you just proved my point. You and the rest of the primates.
Thank you
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