It's too soon for me to speak about motive in the killing of 6 people and the wounding of Gabby Giffords in Arizona today, but I will put up for you the press release of Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupniks opinion......
Sheriff Dupniks offered an emotional, angry
assessment of the state of America in the wake of the shootings in
Arizona, saying that two of his close friends -- Ms. Giffords and Judge
John Roll - were among the victims.
Mr. Dupnik called the shooting a "very sad day for Tucson" and a
"horrendous, horrendous, senseless, unbelievable crime." And then he
blamed the crime on the rhetoric -- presumably political rhetoric -- in
the country.
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol
that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government," he
said. "The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on this country is
getting to be outrageous and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of
the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
Mr. Dupnik said it is time for the country to "do a little soul searching."
He added: "The vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out
from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business ...
This has not become the nice United States that most of us grew up in."
Later, he said: "It's not unusual for all public officials to get
threats constantly, myself included. That's the sad thing about what's
going on in America: pretty soon we're not going to be able to find
reasonable decent people willing to subject themselves to serve in
public office."
Of course Sheriff Dupnik is speaking about rightwing radio and cable TV hosts. Let me add to that group SARAH PALIN and her map of targeted Congressmen and women. Conservatives like Glenn Beck warned the people violence is coming and it's coming from the left. Sorry GB, you and your ilk have blood on your hands and they will only get bloodier unless you stop the government bashing. GOVERNMENT bashing is what is bringing these mentally ill individuals out of the closet and into crowds with their fuckin precious GUNS! That's all I'm gonna say for now.....
3 hours ago
27 comments:
Sue - Don't you EVER get tired of being a hate-monger? You have absolutely NO information about this shooting...only speculation and supposition, but that doesn't stop you from placing blame on conservatives who have done NOTHING to deserve it. Why don't you at least wait to get the facts before you start the frenzy of hate? You really have no idea what you are talking about.
It is really sad that you have taken this tragedy and twisted everything to make your petty, partisan, political point.
I SAID I am NOT gonna speculate but will put up the words of the sheriff, which I commented on. READ again Linda.
Lets be clear... the anti-government rhetoric is coming from the right, you can not hide from that FACT! Face it Linda, your idols are full of hate for our government as it is today and their voices are loud and clear when they say DO NOT RETREAT, RELOAD. To a crazy person that phrase and map of cross-hairs over Congressmen can cause tragedies like we saw today.
Doesn't Linda ever get tired of shilling for right wing kooks?
How much are you getting paid, or hope to get paid Linda? Is FOX News getting the set ready for your new show?
Anon - "Or does freedom of speech only apply to liberals?
These days, liberals seem to be the only ones who wield free speech with any semblance of responsibility.
Liberals don't threaten political opponents with "second amendment remedies." Liberals don't target political opponents in gunsight crosshairs. Liberals don't carry weapons into town hall meetings and act like bullies and thugs. Liberals don't fire off machine guns to incite and inflame their base.
Sue, you really need some better trolls.
Sarah Palin put a target on her. Fox News daily calls Democrats traitors and we should not blame them when an unbalanced person acts on their hate rhetoric? Palin and the Right can rot in Hell.
The judge who was killed in this senseless attack was a conservative Bush 1 appointee. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to agree with Linda on this one. Let the partisan rantings cease for a while - or at least until the bodies cool.
Don't you just love it when someone from the right accuses ANYONE of being a hate-monger? It is just so cute. Grow up and quit playing your little games, they are no longer funny! The Judge that was murdered (we can all agree he was murdered, right?) may have been a conservative, but he was not the prime "target", Rep. Giffords was. You can project all your hate-mongering and violent tendencies onto us on the left, but YOU ALL OWN THIS ONE!
OH, and for the record, I do not now, nor ever will I, wish you any harm. I don't hate you, I don't know you and really don't care to. I have tried to understand why people on the right are more worried about their pocketbooks than living breathing human beings, and for the life of me I CAN NOT. I wish you Linda, Anon 1,2 and 3, all the best in your cold, cruel little worlds, but I do not want to live there!
Bravo Sue! This is such a disappointing day for our country...once again. Why do all the crazies think they can solve all their problems with a gun?
If anything, I believe this ordeal has showed us that the intolerance of those that are hostile end up like that coward who did the shooting. When you show up to presidential appearances with guns and say you are there to "express your rights" is a load of shit.
Clearly, these demonstrations rile those like this coward into performing heinous acts like what happened yesterday.
TV networks like Faux News do nothing to quelch the ranks of the hostile audience they pander to for profit. They too are partially to blame for fanning the flames of hate. I'm afraid that even after this, they will probably do nothing to change their tune.
SUE said, "anti-government rhetoric is coming from the right, you can not hide from that FACT! Face it Linda, your idols are full of hate for our government as it is today"
You choose to misrepresent what the vast majority of conservatives think of government. We do not, in fact, hate government...we disagree with what progressives want it to be - a huge, bloated, over-reaching, inefficient, wasteful, nanny state.
I don't know what the MURDERER feels about government, but to implicate conservatives to be guilty of fomenting murder because they happen to disagree with the administration's policies is beyond ridiculous...it is insane.
No it's not insane. It's cause and effect.
In the coming days the malignant Right will devote considerable time to denying their connivance in fomenting the impetus for this atrocity. They will probably even call the shooter a Leftist.
At time of writing the local law enforcement authority, County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, has stated he is "not convinced" that the person in custody even acted alone, and described another person being sought. If it turns out the shooter did not act alone, then BY DEFINITION there is a shared agenda at the root of this crime.
The trolls are out in force today, I see -- angry, defensive, and scared, as they well ought to be.
The pattern is there. We had the Tiller murder, the Hutaree, the guy who crashed his plane into the IRS building in Texas, and now this -- it's already coming out that the Arizona shooter was another paranoid government-hating nutjob. There is a lunatic fringe on the extreme right which engages in terrorist violence reminiscent of the Islamic jihadists. There isn't an equivalent on the left.
That's why the right-wingers here are angrily trying to shout down anybody who shows signs of talking honestly about this. They're scared. They already know what the truth is about the terrorist fringe.
You speak the truth of it, Infidel.
And no-one on the Right has the courage nor the clarity to even admit there is ANYTHING on their side of the political spectrum to be concerned about.
For an ideology that talks all the time - and very self-servingly - about personal responsibility... they damned well never take any.
I don't know why I even waste my time responding to Linda and her twin, Lisa Anon, but let's give it one more try and then I'm through here.
I defy either of them to name a liberal, leftist or progressive organization that is named on an authoritative non-partisan hate group list.
I defy either to verify that a liberal, leftist or progressive has called on their followers - directly or indirectly - to harm another person.
I defy either to verify that a liberal, leftist or progressive has ever committed violence against another just because of a difference in beliefs.
I defy either to verify that a liberal, leftist or progressive cheered when a Republican president was shot or a Republican representative died.
I defy either of you to prove that liberals, lefties and progressives are full of hate. As usual you are projecting and refusing to take responsibility for your own vile vitriol, which you are all too eager to come here (where you're not wanted) and liberally spread around.
I don't hate people like you because I simply find you totally disgusting, a little frightening, ignorant as all hell and as sick in the head as that young man in AZ. In other words, you are unpatriotic, don't follow the teachings of your savior, and are sub-human. You don't deserve to be acknowledged
The comments you all have made in response to this truly vile and indefensible tragic event have left me with even more doubt that you can ever be anything but rabid partisan haters.
The fact that you can take this sad event and use it to disparage half the population of the United States in order to promote your political viewpoint is every bit as tragic and irrational as the crime itself. I really do pity you for your misguided and myopic world view.
Have a nice life...
"Liberals don't threaten political opponents with "second amendment remedies." Liberals don't target political opponents in gunsight crosshairs. Liberals don't carry weapons into town hall meetings and act like bullies and thugs. Liberals don't fire off machine guns to incite and inflame their base." - REALLY????? Where have you been living?
Where are your documentable examples of liberals doing the specific things Octopus mentioned?
I gave examples of right-wing terrorism. Where are your analogous examples of liberal terrorism?
Loughner (and the Hutaree, and McVeigh, and so on) simply translated the paranoid anti-government rhetoric spewed by Palin and others like her into actual action. None of your defensiveness, wild accusations, or attempts to change the subject, can disguise that.
Linda - I gues you want to throw my comment in there too, yes? In that case you are doing the same thing you are accusing Sue of doing.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle, no wonder you chimed in here so quickly. Must be some "rabid, partisan hater" in you as well.
Linda stop saying we lump ALL conservatives into one huge hate group, NEVER have I or anyone of the liberal bloggers I know done that! Sounds to me like your defense of conservatism is based on guilt, guilt that you are forced to admit you have crazies in your party.
This country had problems with liberal anti-government violence in the past and we fully admit to that, we don't run and hide from it the way you do with your violent extremists on the right. Now in our country the violent rhetoric is coming from the RIGHT, face it.
the republicans are on the talk shows speaking about the shooter, saying he read Hitler. So what are they insinuating?? Hitler-socialism-liberals....that's friggin outrageous coming from our Senators. But coming from a blogger, I will say Hitler-Beck-Palin...
Sue,
You really need to get your troll infestation under control. Anonymous commenters come here, not to contribute to intelligent and rational discourse, but to annoy and harass, and you let them. Especially anonymous trolls: They are the blogging equivalent of snipers and assassins, which I find especially offensive under a topic such as this.
"GOVERNMENT bashing is what is bringing these mentally ill individuals out of the closet"...better include yourselves in that government bashing. Just because you don't bash the current President, you bash the current government and past governments and will in the future bash the next Republican president.
I have a friend who serves as a congressman's aide and the death threats come from both sides of the party lines.
And don't blame gun control. Guns are always available and will always be available if someone really wants one. Doesn't matter if they're legal or not.
This is for Linda, Lisa-Anon, and the other Anonymous commenters. What don't you understand in these words spoken by Rep. Giffords?
"They really need to realize that the rhetoric and firing people up, and, you know, even things for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district. When people do that, you gotta realize there's consequences to that action."
We all know that Giffords is a moderate liberal who is in favor of gun rights (yet the NRA gave her a "D" for her pro-gun stance.)
There is NO equivalent on the left to the gun-toting tea baggers who showed up at a presidential appearance and who talk like the addled-brained half-governor of Alaska about lock and loading to take out Democrats in Congressional districts. No liberal running for office put a crosshair gunsight on his/her opponent. Palin did that.
Only people like Linda and Lisa-anon would come here and claim an absurd equivalecy. There is none, and they know it. But in the grand tradition of their political philosophy, they believe that if they repeat a lie often enough, it will become a truth.
I refuse to let them get away with it.
There. Is. No. Equivalency.
The right owns the gun rhetoric and the anti-government crazy talk while bringing guns to tea party rallies and strutting around as though they were modern revolutionaries.
And Sarah Palin is the queen of the absurd Theater of Gun Machismo.
The Palinbeckian lies, fear mongering, and gun threats have come to fruition in the form of a mentally deranged person.
And the first thing people like Linda say is "The left does it too!"
Sick.
I have no argument with guns kept for protection of home and hearth and business, or guns used for healthy and legitimate sport. My argument is with folks whose display of guns is intended to make a political statement.
There is no symmetry of free speech between an armed and unarmed person. When a gun is in the room, there is no conversation between equals.
When folks bring guns to town hall meetings, or employ the symbolism of guns in their rhetoric, or suggest Second Amendment remedies as alternatives to civil discourse, their purpose is to intimidate and browbeat and threaten the safety of all who oppose them.
Violent rhetoric used to undermine free and democratic exchange has been the raison d'etre of the tea party movement since the beginning.
And perhaps I should make the same distinction with respect to political labels. There are conservatives, regarded as friends, who share my core values and do not disrespect my viewpoint; and there are angry extremists who bring the equivalent of verbal violence to the blogosphere. Extremists and their trolls have only one purpose in mind: To distract and disrupt forum conversations. Note the different between an attack versus a difference of opinion. Those who disagree do so with mutual respect. Those who attack are engaging in verbal abuse, such as Anon and Linda (above) whose remarks are devoid of civility.
Anyone suckered into giving audience to a troll is guilty of aiding and abetting the problem.
Octopus what do you want me to do, I changed my settings so anonymous can't comment. There are times I like to let a conservatives comments stand just so you can see their logic, well their stupidity. Plus I have been accused of deleting conservative viewpoints because I can't debate them. What's a blogger to do?
If I am not quick to respond or delete a comment and someone else responds to it then I feel like I have to leave it up or the other comment won't make sense. I have had conversations go on here so how can I abruptly delete in the middle of those conversations? I would be considered rude wouldn't I?
Sue,
I appreciate the dilemma. At the Zone, we have authentic conservative friends who engage us in civil conversations … and the mutual humility and respect to learn from each other. How can you tell the difference?
Your conservative friends will NOT start a comment with a personal ad hominem attack, with taunts and name-calling such as calling you “a hate-monger” as Linda (above) has done, or by starting circular sandbox arguments that begin with “you started it first.”
My concern about trolls is that they are not what they seem, especially the anonymous ones and the fictitious persons with fictitious weblogs. I assure you, it is total waste of time to engage them … time in your life you will never get back.
If you are familiar with the concept of “psy-ops” – i.e. psychological warfare – that is what a troll does. Hit and run. Snipe and retreat. There are self-appointed independent trolls and there are organized groups of trolls paid to attack, demoralize and disrupt. Yes, the blogosphere has devolved into a partisan psy-ops battlefield.
My suggestion is to use comment moderation to control the conversation and filter out frauds. To give them a platform is to play their game, and you should deny them access ... regardless of inconvenience.
Sue,
Speaking of trolls, the one above called Lisa is running an online raffle (check out the blog), aka an online scam. This is what I am talking about: Bogus Fraudsters - all of them!
I know Octo, lisa has been up my ass for the past year and I put her right in spam when she comes by. lisa/Mal, 2 peas in a pod.
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