New report finds that right-wing extremist groups have grown 244 percent in the past year.
A new report by the Southern Poverty Law Center has unearthed shocking data about the rise of militias, antigovernment groups, and other right-wing extremist groups.The number of extremist groups in the United States exploded in 2009 as militias and other groups steeped in wild, antigovernment conspiracy theories exploited populist anger across the country and infiltrated the mainstream, according to a report issued today by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).”
Antigovernment militias and other extremist organizations that see the federal government as their enemy – came roaring back to life over the past year after more than a decade out of the limelight.
Their numbers grew from 149 groups in 2008 to 512 groups in 2009, an astonishing addition of 363 new groups in a single year. Militias – the paramilitary arm of the Patriot movement – were a major part of the increase, growing from 42 militias in 2008 to 127 in 2009.
These groups are calling themselves PATRIOT GROUPS. They are violent, they are murders,these groups are springing up all over the country with the largest numbers in Texas, surprised? Rightwingnutfuckrednecks!
Do you remember when the Department of Homeland Security warned us about theses extremist groups and how their numbers will grow after Obamas swearing in? Yea, the right cried paranoia from the left, but the proof is in and it ain't pretty. These militiamen are racists, they HATE government, but more so Obamas government. How else do you explain the rise in group numbers?
The anger seething across the American political landscape — over racial changes in the population, soaring public debt and the terrible economy, the bailouts of bankers and other elites, and an array of initiatives by the relatively liberal Obama Administration that are seen as "socialist" or even "fascist" — goes beyond the radical right. The "tea parties" and similar groups that have sprung up in recent months cannot fairly be considered extremist groups, but they are shot through with rich veins of radical ideas, conspiracy theories and racism.
“We are in the midst of one of the most significant right-wing populist rebellions in United States history,” Chip Berlet, a veteran analyst of the American radical right, wrote earlier this year. "We see around us a series of overlapping social and political movements populated by people [who are] angry, resentful, and full of anxiety. They are raging against the machinery of the federal bureaucracy and liberal government programs and policies including health care, reform of immigration and labor laws, abortion, and gay marriage."
Oath Keepers, a Patriot outfit formed last year, suggests, in thinly veiled language, that the government has secret plans to declare martial law and intern patriotic Americans in concentration camps.
A popular Patriot conspiracy theory is the concentration camps, thanks to Glenn Beck and Michelle Bachmann for bringing it to the forefront once again.
Timothy McVeigh, Patriot and murderer of 168 men, women and children in the Oklahoma City bombing........ I've had rightwing visitors here say the teabaggers are not racist, the rightwingers are not racist, but these radicals are adopting the ideas of the Patriots. You can see it at the tea party rallies. The racist rants against President Obama, the conspiracy theories involving the government, it's all there at the rallies and other right wing venues.
The upcoming Second Amendment March in Washington is being promoted by rightwing websites with a picture of colonial militiamen. Now, that is not being patriotic like the right likes to explain it away. The date for this march is April 19, that is the date of the first shots fired at Lexington in the Revolutionary War, and it's also the anniversary of the end of the government siege in Waco and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Coincidence???
82 comments:
I knew they had grown but figured a lot of it was just the same ole people getting louder and more persistent - sort of like Little Miss Echo. But it is alarming news. I'd like to read the full report to find out, if possible, the size of these groups (some may only have 25 or 30 members)and how they'd voted before.
It's a disguise to explain the growth of these groups as simply anti government. They are anti black President of the United States. Racism is alive and well in America. It is more covert than it used to be. They want to stop the President because he is black. All this name calling about him being a Communist, Socialist, etc, is just BS.
Leslie go to Think Progress, there are links there too. It is alarming but we were warned and it's all tooooooo true!!
Thats right Tom. The whole reason for the numbers rising NOW is simply our black president. There were groups back in the Clinton years but nothing like it is today.
read more here,
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/spring/rage-on-the-right
They have an interactive site may - number of groups per state. I thought TN was bad with 37 but NJ has 44! If you put in the state, you can see which groups are active there.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map
Tom
Exactly right.Obama being black's 90% of the hostility.
Sue maybe the 244% gain is in weight. Lot of fat MF's at those teabagger wingdings.
Oso. You are so observant! LOL
Glenn Beck actually debunked the concentration camp thing.
I do remember how the Heimatland Sicherheit Kommisar Napoleonitano pointed the finger at me and my fellow returning veterans, accusing us of being terrorists.
As for the rest of this... probably are some fringies out there, every movement has them (Google ELF and Colorado).
The SPLC makes their bones scaring people with this stuff. The more worried guilty rich liberals get, the more they give. Follow the money...
"The SPLC makes their bones scaring people with this stuff. The more worried guilty rich liberals get, the more they give."
That is so outrageously untrue that I can't even find the words to respond. Patently false.
Oso, LOL!
Silver, yes Beck debunked it but not til after his audience got all riled up, his whole point in talking about it in the first place.
As for fringe, this sounds much worse then fringe. All you have to do is follow the rallies, not just the money. Seriously, it's big, bigger than we want to think and I'm not easily scared.
Leslie I should have stopped and digested silvers words. "guilty rich liberals" giving money out of fear?? Sounds more like rightwing fearmongering, all you have to do is listen to the fear over HC reform, its truly outrageous.
BTW, Leslie I just saw in my little hometown newspaper, we have a tea party organization right here in town!! WTF, they are invading my little "farm town USA"!!
@Sue "WTF, they are invading my little "farm town USA"!!"
They're everywhere! They're everywhere! :)
It's kinda friggin scary huh Silver!! ;-)
Silver Fiddle says:
I do remember how the Heimatland Sicherheit Kommisar Napoleonitano pointed the finger at me and my fellow returning veterans, accusing us of being terrorists.
And therein lies part of the problem.. Sue why do you let this crap go unanswered. There is no reason for this kind of shit being stated here.. Janet Napolitano was doing her job and was quoting from the very memo you spoke of about the rising extremism of people like Timothy McVeigh and how people like him were joining these so called "Patriot" groups and were being targeted by them to start problems..
So SF comes here and spouts his filth and you let it ride... that just perpetuates the ideology of the crap.. but you and Leslie pick out where he says
"The SPLC makes their bones scaring people with this stuff. The more worried guilty rich liberals get, the more they give"
Yes, it is false... I get an email from them often letting me know about what is going on with the extremists.. because living where I do, I have a large group of these civil disobedients in my state..... we have had several people killed, including law enforcement by them and I like to know what they are up to.. Never once have they ever asked for money.... not like all the other organizations out there.. like the ACLU and every other under the sun...
But to use the character assassination and to insinuate that DHS Napolitano is a Communist or whatever is just way out of line and uncalled for in anyway shape or form.
Not for the first time SF you have crossed what I consider the line here.. but this is Sue's blog and she lets you stay... So who am I to say you can't comment.
I called "Homeland Security" the same thing under Bush. What a horrible name and a horrible organization here in the USA.
And Napolitano did indeed impugn the character of us returning veterans. She apologized and pulled the report, as I recall. Bennie Thompson, Democratic Congressman from Mississippi (and a fine, patriotic man) scolded her for it.
Tim McVeigh committed a murderous act of terror, we fried him, and if there is a God in heaven, el diablo is now violating his every orifice, but everybody still uses this incident to tar all veterans.
Annette,
If criminal gangs where you live are killing people, including law enforcement, they need to be tracked down like the rabid dogs they are and enthroned upon ol' sparky.
As for the rest of the law abiding citizens, have fun monitoring their activities, I'm sure the authorities are proud of you.
And I say this from a wellspring of charity and goodwill towards all.
The people in that picture are displaying a Confederate flag -- the symbol of the most terrible and violent act of treason against the United States in our whole history.
I can accept conservatives objecting to liberal policies for patriotic reasons, but I can never accept someone who displays a Confederate flag as a patriot.
Traitorous filth. I'm not joking.
You all are out of your minds...literally. You are also a pack of hypocrites. You have called Republicans and Tea Party members haters and hate mongers, but in all the world of bloggers, this site takes the prize for hate speech. God help the United States of America if the likes of you ever get complete control.--PROUD2Bconservative
Even if you could believe that an amazing string of coincidences could occur throughout the course of 20 years such that Obama’s patriotic ears were never once exposed to Reverend Wright’s hateful preaching, can you also believe he was utterly clueless as to what his pastor was all about? That strains credulity beyond all reason. The guy married him, baptized his children and inspired the title of his book “The Audacity Of Hope.”
And what about Mrs. Obama? Did she miss all those hate-filled sermons as well? I have my doubts because they sure would go a long way towards explaining that lousy attitude of hers that kept her from being proud of her country right up until the time her husband became the Democratic frontrunner.
Obama has said that Rev. Wright “is like an old uncle who says things I don’t always agree with.” It’s the old “crazy uncle” excuse, but the problem with that is, while you can’t pick your relatives, you do pick your pastor. And if I had an uncle who, in my presence, said the things Rev. Wright has said about America, one of us would be leaving the premises.
I love seeing all these conservative commenters coming out with a response that is equative to just saying, "But, but, but..."
Yeah, whatever. Keep commentin', ya'll.
Lynne: The guy married him
AHA!! The old gay-marriage bugaboo again! :-)
Annette, SF doesn't abuse his commenting privileges here, so if he doesn't attack me or my friends then he can have his opinions. Of course most of them we don't agree with, but he is a conservative afterall.
Anon I disagree completely about my blog being the most hateful, thats ridiculous. You don't get around much I guess. I speak the truth here and if you can't handle the truth then don't read it, simple, huh! BTW, I did not make up this story, it's real and its full of hate for America.
Thats right Infidel, all the conservative hate talk, all the unpatriotic things they do and say, tells me they hate our country.
Lynne this post is not about Rev. Wright or President Obama. If you are conservative and stand for the things mentioned in this post, then you have my sympathy.
I don't think those groups outnumber the terror cells in the country or the Bloods,Crypts,MS-13Latin Kings,Altogether at least 800,000,members.
Are you saying the guys with the white hoods have killed more people than the gangs?
Amazing how I haven't heard about any of those killings or violence from those groups in the media. Maybe I missed something you didn't.
It shows the mind-warp of the conservatives who seem to enjoy coming here and then bashing our philosophy and our beliefs ad nauseum. And they never say anything original - it's just the same-ole, same-ole. Non-thinking puppets.
I rarely agree with SF, but at least he does his research and backs up his arguments with facts - most of the time or, at least with how he interprets them. ; ) He doesn't talk in cliches and he writes and spells pretty darn well for a representative of the right. He also seems to have a bit of a sense of humor. More importantly, he should be able to express himself, especially since he doesn't seem to be reading from a script.
SF doesn't come here and make ignorant meaningless statements such as:
"this site takes the prize for hate speech. God help the United States of America if the likes of you ever get complete control.--"
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"I don't think those groups outnumber the terror cells in the country or the Bloods,Crypts,MS-13Latin Kings,Altogether at least 800,000,members."
This is actually true, which is exacttly why we need stronger gun laws.
anon, I'm not an expert on "gangs" like the Bloods, but these gangs are not anti-government like the rightwing hate groups. The Patriots are government=Obama haters and rally against "government", there is no similarity as far as I can tell by your argument.
I don't believe you can hide from the hate factor coming from rightwingers.
Sue it's not Obama the man people don't like,it's Obama and his "gang" of big spending bully liberals pushing forward with socialist policies with no regard to what the American people are saying.
The more they ignore what the people are saying the more they will hear from those people and frankly I do believe it is being done intentionally to get this reaction.
It's a tactic.
Why is it everytime he speaks the stock market drops?
This should bother you more:
http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/usa-terror-cells.htm
Obama is not a socialist and neither are his policies. the right is too stubborn and racist to listen to the truth of this administration which a majority of the country believes in. get over it....
"I don't believe you can hide from the hate factor coming from rightwingers."
True. To write "it's not Obama the man. . ." is disingenuous at best or a bald-faced lie at worst. All those signs that advocated shooting the president were not signs of love.
This alone is TREASON and the following are close behind.
To claim our government is socialistic is to demonstrate an appalling ignorance of what our form of government is.
To always be spouting "it's in the Constitution" when most extremists have no clue as to the wording (because they haven't read it in a 1000 years), don't understand it and want to rewrite it and to undermine it every chance they get is the height of ignorance and very dangerous.
To always be spouting "it's my right" while denying the same rights to others - just because they disagree with you - is blatant hypocrisy.
To compare the health care reform to Nazi Germany, and showing pictures of the ovens, is ignorant, hateful and outrageous. Talk to some Holocaust survivors. You might learn something. Ironically, most extremists claim the Holocaust is a myth.
To deny citizens affordable health care and insurance is cruel and inhumane. Of course, it will only be the wealthy who can afford to pay the high cost of premiums, so that CEO's can get their millions in compensation.
BTW, we're not talking about denying HC just to the poor - we're talking middle class as well. I hope for your sake that you never get a life-threatening illness and are denied care or get thrown in jail because your miscarriage is considered murder (Utah).
Finally, Anon, I linked to that website you provided. As a professional researcher, I tend to ignore sites that don't identify themselves or their sources, no matter how good they may or may not be - sort of like "Anons."
Of course, they aren't Patriots, the Republicans and their bigoted followers only love the Government when they are in charge and can use the Government to Oppress Americans, instill their insane religious beliefs as laws, steal Trillions of Taxpayer dollars and murder as many people as possible.
SUE; Re "Obama is not a socialist and neither are his policies."
LOL.
I know, if he were a socialist, I would be one happy camper.
After all unregulated capitalism, a bit of socialism may be the only thing that saves us.
yes there probably will be a home grown terrorist act in the U.S.A. and and it will not come from Achmed, or Muhammed. Rather it will be Billy Bob, Or Joe Bob. These are scary misguided cats. They will hide behind the constitution, and the flag. They will want to water the tree of liberty.
Never being able to see the forest beyond the trees.
Cowardly Anons should be null and void.
Along with their Fascist Rethugs.
I let you go on long enough lisa, enough already!
Sue. Are you sure Anon. is Little Miss Echo? No spelling errors. No grammatical errors. Even a little original research (# of gang members). Maybe Linda?
They do have one thing in common. To talk to either of them is like knocking your head against the wall.
you should stop listening to unhinged looney tunes like Dylan Ratigan.
Is that a-hole for real or is he just another lying pos with no backup for his allegations?
Now I see why the left wants Universal Healthcare. They need their meds.
"To compare the health care reform to Nazi Germany, and showing pictures of the ovens, is ignorant, hateful and outrageous"
Where did you see this? I'll tell you where. NO WHERE,LIARS!!!!!
I suppose most of you saw the exchange Dylan Ratigan had with Tea Party organizer Mark Williams yesterday. After Radigan had spoken to Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center about the rise in hate groups in America, Ratigan then started a segment with Mark Williams, who's day job is a right wing radio host.
Ratigan became really bent out of shape because of William's refusal to repudiate the racist fringe groups that can be found under the umbrella of the Tea Party movement; Ratigan was careful to say that most Tea Party members are not right wing extremists, but also said that there is a good chance that many right wing extremists may be found in the Tea Party movement.
Williams wouldn't distance himself from the fringe groups....and a furious Ratigan had Williams' mike cut off.
Initially I thought Ratigan won...but it was Williams who played "rope a dope", and Ratigan bit....he's selling the case to his followers that he wasn't given a fair shake and was silenced (in Bill O'Reilly fashion) by one of those MSNBC liberals.
The danger is very real that there are extremists getting involved in the Tea Party movement- and in the mainstream of Republican politics- and their leadership will not call them out.
Now listen to this....Ron Paul won the CPAC straw poll at their convention, right? On October 8, 2008 Ron Paul addressed the John Birch Society.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/409
If you visit the Birch website, it seems innocuous...until you start reading between the lines. On the conservative side the "extreme" and the "mainstream" are moving towards merger.
And its not good for Republicans, nor is it for America.
ANON OR WHO EVER THE FUCK YOU ARE. I do not really care. It took me one minute to google and find this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5467041
Would you like me to find more, or will you and your racist tea baggers shut the FUCK UP. I have had it with a bunch of KKK PAVLOV PUPPIES THAT YOU ARE.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/05/holocaust-sign/
The picture of Holocaust victims was front and center where the ilk of the GOP, Boehner, Cantor, Bachmann etc, spoke at the stupid HC rally on the steps of the Capital
TNLib: To compare the health care reform to Nazi Germany, and showing pictures of the ovens, is ignorant, hateful and outrageous. Talk to some Holocaust survivors.
This seems to be a frequent extreme-right tactic. Back when I was an abortion-clinic-defense volunteer, some of the regular anti-abortion protesters we faced always displayed a sign comparing abortion to the Holocaust and featuring a huge picture of death-camp victims. To make it even more tasteless, they were actually camped out in front of a synagogue that was across the street from the clinic.
(I was once told that the JDL had agents in the area, ready to move in case any of these nuts ever tried to do anything to the synagogue.)
Sue (original post): The date for this march is April 19,
Right before the birthday of their true spiritual founder, too.
The whole comparing everybody to nazis is so tired. Can't anyone form a unique criticism anymore?
Yid With Lid
SF: I wasn't the one carrying the friggin' sign and I don't recall hearing it from the progressive side until the extremists started carrying Swastika flags and doing the Hitler salute routine.
"The whole comparing everybody to nazis is so tired. Can't anyone form a unique criticism anymore?"
Not possible. Besides, Brad Pitt made them cool to talk about again.
SF: I went to Yid With Lid. You can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep, i.e. the blog list. Having said that, he has his own problems with facts.
Considering that I am a devout ANTI-ZIONIST,
and Yid with Lid is a pro Zionista.
See ya.
"Having said that, he has his own problems with facts."
Interesting formulation: His own problems with the facts.
Freudian slip?
My only point is that this is not a cut and dried issue (like almost every issue). I try to get out of my comfort zone and seek out things that challenge my world view.
Most organizations are there to propagandize us. It's all sensationalism.
I don't visit World Net Daily or Newsmax or listen to Ann Coulter for just that reason. It is ideological porn, and there is plenty on the left as well.
Beware. It rots your brain and steals your soul. Dare to be a free thinker.
those signs are BS. They would not be allowed. Your leftwing blogs are inciters of hate.
Only stes like think progress and the democrat underground would come up with such vile.
It humors me that both parties latch on to the extremes from the other side and try to label everyone representative of that small group. I have been a life long member of the republican party; I have certain values and beliefs that I hold true. It doesn't matter if there is a black man in office or a white woman, I still fundamentally disagree with many of the policies on the left. This is how I am wired. Would I attend a tea party rally? Maybe. Would I be violent or abusive to others, absolutely not.
There are, however, people in this world who will always be hateful and they will utilize whatever they can to further their cause. Are some of these people jumping on the tea party band wagon, you betcha! Are they representative of conservative movement, absolutely not. Unfortunately these people exist and we all will have to do our part to make them go away.
SF I would hardly call these hate groups sensationalism.
Glad to know you don't listen to Coulter, What about Liz Cheney?
that's right WMUR,they are on both sides but more on the left from what I have seen:
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612
see the one that says F you Bush?
Never saw anything that close to a sign like that towards Obama
Looks like both sides have some kooky haters on the fringes. Good link Lisa!
lisa GET REAL!!
WMUR, Nicely said. For the conservatives who don't want to be associated with groups like the tea party and the Patriots, than why not do a better job of distancing yourselves from them? There are members of the repub party who want to intertwine the TP's with the repub party. This may be your demise.
Every time I see a picture of the Shrubster that is EXACTLY what I say. And will continue to until my dying day.
Little Miss Echo - aka Lisa.
"those signs are BS. They would not be allowed."
They were all over the blogosphere and news. If you'd get your head out of your ass, you could see. Even one of your heroes denounced them as unacceptable - Cantor. Google images under "health care protest signs concentration camps" - a little long, so you'll need to copy and paste.
"Never saw anything that close to a sign like that towards Obama
That's right, DS. The signs just advocated killing him instead. I repeat, if you'd get your head out of your ass, you could see
Sue I guess you forgot the last few elections in Massachusetts,Virginia nd your own great blue State.
Even in Texas the RINO Kay Bailey Hutchinson is out.
Obviously people aren't paying that much attention to a few signs as much as they are to the power grab in DC.
WMUR: Good comment. I just wish Republicans as well as Democrats would be courageous enough to denounce them.
Look, this post is about the radical groups of anti-government, groups like militiamen, the Patriots. These people are dangerous and can be murderous like the Tim McVeigh's of the country. For lisa to say tea partiers are common folk just peacefully protesting government, she may be right for some of them but NOT ALL. There are Holocaust signs, Obama hate signs, people with guns in full view, people talking about succession, and even talk that is treasonous. To tell you the truth, the teabaggers confuse me. There are members of the GOP who embrace them and members who want them to go away. I guess they are just as confused!
"For lisa to say tea partiers are common folk just peacefully protesting government, she may be right for some of them but NOT ALL."
Obviously true, Sue!
What you say can be said about any group. Right now there is a doctor out there who is also a murderer. A liberal is curled up with a copy of Mein Kampf trying to learn something, a "good kid" stealing from the till where she works...
As Dr Sowell says:
"Improbable events are commonplace in a country with more than a quarter billion people."
If there are really all these violent rightwing haters out there,we should be hearing an avalanche of news stories about them. Stay tuned!
"If there are really all these violent right-wing haters out there,we should be hearing an avalanche of news stories about them."
They already get plenty of coverage and absolutely no factual analysis is provided. If Palin, heaven forbid, tells a blatant lie not one member of the MSM will bother mentioning it. Probably because they've become increasingly lazy and don't do their research and partly because they're simply stupid.
"...not one member of the MSM will bother mentioning it. Probably because they've become increasingly lazy and don't do their research and partly because they're simply stupid."
We agree!
Agreed that its wrong to broad brush either political party because both do contain members who are on the fringes....
One problem is that the MSM only seems to concentrate on those extreme factions.
Another problem is that consensus building doesn't sell very well to the party faithful, and the cost of running a political campaign is so enormous that an elected official is always trying to get contributions from the same groups and individuals- so they keep saying the things the potential contributors want to hear, and keep counting the $$$$ that rolls in.
I heard Bob Schieffer on a radio interview say that the perpetual campaign and quest for contributions is probably the root cause of the disfunction of the system....and I think he's right.
Both sides are in to sell advertisement. How do they do that? By showing extremist shows, it's great TV. This is why I gave up on watching TV news and started reading the newspapers. Besides, Cartoon Network is REAL bipartisanship.
☻☻☻☻☻♥♠♣♦☺☺☺☺☺
Quite a bruhaha here Sue. Now I know Obama is no socialist. We have one avowed Socialist in government. Bernie Sanders is the best Senator we have in my opinion. It's also quite absurd to compare bloods and crips to teabaggers. While all these groups exhibit criminal tendencies, the teabaggers are the mainstay of the political right. Bloods and crips are apolitical and have no association with the left.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1217
To be bipartisan in solving problems, is one thing.
Although it was never possible with the Republicans, and they have stated it loudly.
And I'm tired of this "both sides" argument.
It was Republican policies that brought us to this financial mess, thus the high unemployment.
It's Republicans who decided not to be serious about health care, financial regulations, and other issues.
They decided on a strategy of attack and defeat Obama, and never entered a serious dialogue about the issues. Their plan, is no help to the American people.
Their future plan, is the same plan that caused all our problems. Tax cuts, and who cares about multi trillion dollar debts, or the health of the American people.
Call it blame if you want, it's just the facts Jack.
Romney 2012
LOL. The RNC wold never allow a Mormon to represent their [family values].LOL.
More effective than the majority leader.
Romney says he's a one woman man.
That would be a nice change from many of the other Republican men.
anything would be a nice "change" lol!!!!!!!
@ Tom
"It was Republican policies that brought us to this financial mess, thus the high unemployment."
This is demonstrably false. Wall Street gives more to democrats than republicans, so do corporations.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and miscellaneous entitlements alone are over 50% of the budget and growning. Add expensive wars and political payoffs on top of that and you have a bipartisan disaster.
It was negligence for Republicans not to raise enough revenue to pay for these programs.
They disagreed with these programs, but could not get the votes to end the programs, so they simply pandered to voters with their call of "No New Taxes" and let the debt rack up.
Why didn't they just pass a bill to end these programs? They had the majority for years and could have passed legislation to kill these programs.
It is dangerous leadership, to not ensure the bills of government got paid. They did it ti gain votes, keep power, and yet, bankrupt America.
You are committing the falsehood when you make it sound like they could do nothing about the costs of government. That's a lie. Either pay for it, or end it. They did not have the courage to do either.
Tom: I am not defending republicans, but you are defending democrats.
If all you can see are republican sins you are half-blind.
Political hero worship (right or left) will be the death of this nation.
I don't hero worship politicians.
I do not accept that Democrats are equally responsible for the mess we are in. The facts say that, and I'm tired of people trying to make that case.
I'm tired of Republicans not taking responsibility for their mistakes, and now blaming Obama for all the bad numbers.
Your comment not only blamed everyone but Republicans, it inferred that what I said was a lie. Wrong, those are the facts. Let the facts lay the blame.
Hi Tom, I don't hero worship politicians either, not even Obama!
But I can see the truth when it smacks ya in the face. Time after time the repubs have proven they can not govern. Their total lack of economics expertise is plain as day. From Reagan's disastrous "trickle down the leg" mentality to Bush's' huge fuckin tax cuts for the fuckin rich, and UNPAID for WARS. Its a miracle we still have a country to wake up to every day!
sorry SF, no comparisons I can see..
Tom: You are not a liar, you are just delusional. Partisan politics has blinded you to the mess both parties have made.
I blame republicans and I blame democrats. Use google to see how much Fannie and Freddie money Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are swimming in.
Are you a shill for the democrats, or are you a free thinker?
Sue: I mentioned expensive wars in my litany. The Reagan/Clinton years were an era of unprecedented economic growth and job creation. Look it up.
SF says,
"all you can see are republican sins you are half-blind."
"you are just delusional"
"Political hero worship"
These are the comments and attacks of a political party hack, who knows nothing about who he is attacking, or the facts of American History. See you on the Glen Beck show.
The Reagan years were the beginning of the multi trillion dollar debts. The dangerous policy of tax cuts without spending cuts.
Clinton's last budget had a surplus, which Bush spent to a deficit before the 9/11 attacks.
In 28 years (of which Republicans held the White House 21 years) the national debt went from under 1 trillion to over 12 trillion.
11 trillion of that happened under Reagan, Bush, and Bush.
Americans have supported entitlement programs for generations. It's only the Republicans who refuse to pay for those programs, and have left us bankrupt.
Seems the one living in a delusion is you. Enjoy living in your delusion.
Todd to defang financial reform.
this is from a very liberal site.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/03/04-8
Yet it holds the wannabe dems feet to the fire.
@Tom:
"The Reagan years were the beginning of the multi trillion dollar debts. The dangerous policy of tax cuts without spending cuts.
Clinton's last budget had a surplus..."
You mention history, so you should know that Bush Sr and Clinton were both smart enough to continue Reaganomics.
Go to the CBO or some other US Government website and look at the revenue chart. They go up, from Reagan to the end of Clinton. The problem (Reagan had a Dem Congress, Clinton has a Repub congress) is too much BIPARTISAN spending.
Your only valid point is that everyone has spent more than they took in, other than Clinton and the GOP Congress the last few years of his presidency.
FYI, I am at work when Glenn Beck's show is on, so I can't watch it and I don't have tivo, so find some other way to insult me.
I am a free thinking conservative/libertarian unencumbered by partisanship. If you can't see how both parties have wrecked the ship of state then we'll just have to leave it at that. No use wasting more words...
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