Now that's enthusiasm if I ever saw it! LOL! We're about to cross the finish line, eat your hearts out righties!!
Comprehensive health care reform will cost the federal government $940 billion over a ten-year period, but will increase revenue and cut other costs by a greater amount, leading to a reduction of $138 billion in the federal deficit over the same period, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, a Democratic source tells HuffPost. It will cut the deficit by $1.2 trillion over the second ten year period.
The source said it also extends Medicare's solvency by at least nine years and reduces the rate of its growth by 1.4 percent, while closing the doughnut hole for seniors, meaning there will no longer be a gap in coverage of medication. The CBO also estimated it would extend coverage to 32 million additional people.
Here is the breakdown, it's real, it's true and it means the beginning of the end of a long year. A year filled with the most ridiculous talking points coming from rethugs, the most sickening lies and obstruction. But even with this CBO score we have Michael Steele calling it a lie, we have Bonehead Boehner saying "they are gonna RAM, RAM, RAM this bill down the throats of Americans". Give me a break! 50 years of trying to get something done on healthcare reform and suddenly dems are ramming it, making backroom deals, twisting arms, threatening, it's all so laughable. It does nothing but show Americans the desperation of the rethugs to bring down President Obama at the cost of Americas future. How is it none of these conservative protesters got the same insurance rate hike letters as we all did? Or did they get their rate hike but it doesn't matter to them, all they care about is Obamas failure on one of the biggest legislative milestones in our generation.
We are heading into the weekend of the vote and the rethugs are crying and whining more than ever. They have no clue, they have no plan. The ONLY thing they say is let the people buy insurance across state lines. THAT'S IT! We are so sick of listening to the idiotic drivel. I can't fuckin' wait for them to implode after this bill passes.
39 comments:
They've been pushing the state lines thing for quite some time.
States regulate health care, so if something needs to be taken care of for state constituents they can mandate coverage. Ex if there's a lot of miners in a state then certain health issues,say black lung for instance, must be covered by insurers. But if say North Dakota doesn't have mines/black lung then it wouldn't be required coverage.
So if policies were sold across state lines insurers could sell North Dakota policies in Virginia and not have to cover black lung.
I wish I could share Democrat pleasure over Obamacare. I'm certain it will pass and equally certain its mandated coverage has closed the door on any chance of single payer. Why do we need single payer now? everybody's covered. health insurers can jack the rates as high as they want cause now we HAVE to buy their high deductible no coverage policies.
It's far more likely a future house will slash what little health coverage Americans now have rather than add to it. The liberal belief that once a piece of legislation is passed it's simple to go back and dress it up is a myth.
"health insurers can jack the rates as high as they want cause now we HAVE to buy their high deductible no coverage policies."
Agreed. Just like back in the day, there used to be gas wars at petrol stations. Then, they realized their fight wasn't with each other, it was with the consumer and collusion insued.
Oh but they do, Sue! Actually the democrats lie, and here's how:
It collects 10 years of taxes to pay for only 6-8 year of coverage. Neat trick.
Here's another neat trick, courtesy of CNN-Money:
"the bill projects that Medicare will lower reimbursements to doctors by $371 billion over the next 10 years, yet Congress would cancel those cuts in a separate bill, all part of an attempt to mask the true size of future deficits through "gimmicks and smoke and mirrors."
District of Criminals Chicanery at its finest!
And about those insurance profits:
"the profit margins the health insurance companies report -- often below 5 percent -- pace some industries and lag behind many others." (Source: ABC News")
Had congress merely passed tort reform, outlawed capitation and make a law against preexisting condition discrimination we would have had bipartisan passage a year ago.
Add in using insurance what it's designed for and not everyday doctor visits and routine procedures so people pay out of pocket, and the prices will come down.
Finally, decouple insurance from employment and tax employer-provided insurance and you've raised enough money to pay the premiums for America's indigent.
But no. This is about power and control...
Oso: "The liberal belief that once a piece of legislation is passed it's simple to go back and dress it up is a myth."
Sure beats hell out of starting over.
I know this is simple and may not be as stimulating as many of the more "academic" bloggers as I describe them like, But doggonit! This pisses off republicans and that's always a good thing. Especially since republicans are for the most part against anything that makes sense.
Oso: the feds would have to regulate insurance sold across state lines.
Oso I listened to Howard Dean tonight say the bill is not perfect, no bill is perfect. But he says passage of this will be good for the country. He described it to be close to Romneycare and he said it is definitly NOT a government takeover. The right has lied and continues to lie. I also think the progressives will continue their fight for single payer. If the country likes this bill in the months and years to come then we don't have to worry about rethugs having a majority to repeal this legislation.
I only wish single payer were at the end of the road. But hey, that would piss off to many people. This is America, everyone has to get their cut, or there would be hell to pay.
Truth, they are livid and are acting like rabid raccoons! The lies coming from the rethugs are coming fast and furious, they are not backing down a bit. Morons...
sorry silver but when you say Paul Ryan I get kinda sick to my stomach. His plan will eliminate Medicare and this bill strengthens it. I know you don't believe it, sorry.
there is one thing I do agree with you on, we should be paying cash for our Dr. visits. Doctors ask for too many unnecessary tests too. We need to be more active in our health and tell the doctor when we think he is ordering a test we don't need or want.
C, it's too soon to say rates will skyrocket. I don't believe that anyway.
Leslie I do think this bill can be worked on in the coming years, we need to keep dems in the majority first.
Tom I wish we had single payer too, but I haven't given up on that. We have strong and persistent progressives who are continuing to work on it.
Thanks for throwing me a bone, Sue, but you need to read the links. Not rightwing propagana, CNN and ABC.
The numbers don't add up This is beltway banditry at it's lowest.
Bernie Madoff went to jail for less than this.
Thanks for throwing me a bone, Sue, but you need to read the links. Not rightwing propagana, CNN and ABC.
Why don't YOU stop pushing right wing propaganda then? The "health insurers only make 5% profit" is as misleading-to the point of utter bullshit-as "the US has the highest per capita income in the world."
Both statements are true. But both ignore a lot of things-as in, the CEO of United Health collecting a BILLION dollars in pay and bonuses.The overhead associated with health insurance executives is the reason their profit margins are down, not because they're paying out so much.
The liberal belief that once a piece of legislation is passed it's simple to go back and dress it up is a myth.
Not true; Social Security is an excellent example. The problem here is that a lot of supposed dems are actually DINOs, and they must go before ANYTHING meaningful happens.
I did read your links silver. I don't trust Ryan, I don't like him. Republicans only cry about the deficit when a dem is president, when their guy was in they voted on the 3 bills that made the surplus from Clinton skyrocket into 2 trillion of debt. So now we have a dem president and all of a sudden the right are horrified about our future, oh the horror!!
JR you are exactly right about the DINOS!
Jolly Roger:
They are collecting 10 years of taxes for 6 years of coverage (meanwhile the poor still have no coverage for 2-4 years).
They are using a separate bill to restore doctors fees they took out of the health care bill so CBO would give it a good score.
If you can't understand that then happy goose stepping...
Silverfiddle,
I looked at the ABC article about the profits being in line with other industries.
JR is right however. Profits do not include what many would consider massive CEO bonuses.
The other thing not mentioned is the difference between collected premiums and medical payouts. The health insurance industry categorizes actual payouts as a loss thus the disincentive to pay for treatment.
If this was 1955 or 1965 I'd agree we could return to this piece of crap legislation and fix it.
40-50 years ago we had strong unions getting out the vote and high corporate tax rates keeping the right in line plus far less lobbyists. Thus SS was improved on and Medicare enacted.
Today, unions are effectively powerless, the finance/insurance sector has switched places with mfg/trade and there is a revolving door for congress people leaving office to become lobbyists.
I think it's far more likely politicians will whittle away at this thing rather than add to it.
I think it's far more likely politicians will whittle away at this thing rather than add to it.
I doubt it. Massive change is coming. This Presidency will be looked at in 20 years as a transitional one. I don't think we survive as an intact entity, but if we do, it will be a much different looking one. The demographics are all in our favor.
Silver,
Another question I'd have for the person who wrote the ABC article on the 3.1% profit is-does her figure come from total premiums, or the service provided by the insurer?
I've read before that approx 80% of health premiums are paid out. If that's correct then 20% is overhead/marketing/bonuses/etc. So that 3.1% profit is more like 15% if it's based on what they actually do. Plus it's not like that $ is put to use immediately anyway. So it's likely invested for a profit-is that figured in ?
JR,
you may be right there. Demographics, we're outbreeding them.
Silverfiddle ~ Excellent points, but you are casting pearls before swine here. No matter how many facts or statistics you throw out to support the dangers and shortcomings of this travesty of a bill, it will only fuel the hate speech and profane attacks on you and all conservatives. It seems that reasonable discussion is beyond the realm of possibility with this group. Good luck, though. Your statements are well made and right on point.
Linda,
Silverfiddle offered a link to support his position, in response I offered my own facts and figures. Several others articulated their own positions. I fail to see any reason to categorize the exchange as "hate speech and profane attacks".
I suspect you commented based on ideology rather than actual reading of the posts.
Oso ~ My observation was based upon the comments that I have read on this blog over the past several months. You, of course, are free to disagree with me, and I with you.
Sue ~ Tort reform would take care of many unnecessary tests. For some reason, though, Dems don't seem to want to stop the trial lawyers from making a living on the backs of sick people. No, I'm not opposed to wronged people being able to sue bad doctors...saved you all some typing :0)
Linda: "you are casting pearls before swine here. No matter how many facts or statistics you throw out to support the dangers and shortcomings of this travesty of a bill, it will only fuel the hate speech and profane attacks on you and all conservatives."
Now let's look at this statement: Swine? Hate speech? Profane Attacks? I see none of that here from anyone, including SF - except you.
" It seems that reasonable discussion is beyond the realm of possibility with this group."
You keep coming here and saying this and I keep asking why do you keep coming here? Get active on one of your right-wing blogs. See how polite those goons are.
Linda my blog gets maybe 3 or 4 regular visits from conservatives. I believe they are treated very fair and are not attacked by me or my other commenters. There is an occasional exceptance to this and it's usually when lisa takes over a thread to use it as her personal chat room. I think that is disrespecting my blog.
Silver won't take your bait, he is a welcome guest here and we enjoy his debate. He will most likely tell you we have some pretty good back and forths here with some intelligent talk and it always stays civil.
Leslie is right, why not get involved with some conservative political blogs then you can state your facts to people who agree with you. You can talk til you are blue, we will not change our minds here.
JR and Oso, I have to agree with JR that massive change is coming. We have waited too long for this HC bill to whittle it away. When a group is forming and gets bigger and bigger instead of smaller, that means this bill will be improved upon by those progressives who are fighters. We need to concentrate on the efforts of those people and do what it takes to get more like them elected. If rethugs come back in power all our work will be destroyed, we will be doomed...
"you are casting pearls before swine here"
Too freakin' funny! Look who just resorted to name calling, like it or not, it is.
By the way, I don't know EXACTLY what SF politics are, but I suspect he's a Libertarian and since you thought highly of the ever-expanding big government Bush family, I'd say you're not on the same page.
As a Libertarian would probably tell you, "Have a government approved day."
Sue Linda like myself have to come here. It's difficult to look away.
As far as Paul Ryna's plan goes what are we going to do when Medicare runs out in 7 years or so with or without any reform?
Looks like someone is having voters remorse:
http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=e44z6UeuZu
As much as conservatives want to discount these figures, the savings going forward are even more impressive. $1.2 trillion in savings over 20 years. Were Silverfiddle correct about cost, the long-term savings would trend down, not up.
I still have to hold my nose to support this bill, but it is a starting point. After it passes, it's time to advocate health care reform.
"Sue Linda like myself have to come here. It's difficult to look away."
Wrong on two accounts.
1) Sentence structure. I think what you're trying to say is, "Sue, Linda and I have to come here . . ."
2) It is your choice to go where ever you want. Just don't expect to be treated with kid gloves and warm hugs when you talk like an imbecile.
Leslie I don't know if you mean to, but you make me laugh out loud!! You are a hoot! LOL
lisa if you come here with those stupid links I will delete pronto.
Obviously, you all are not familiar with the term "figure of speech." In this particular example, it means to not waste your wisdom upon those who are disinclined to value its worth. Get a grip, people. No one has called you a pig!
Sue ~ I was not trying to "bait" silverfiddle - I was merely complimenting his remarkable ability to make a great point! Not everyone can be so clear and concise in their comments. He has a talent for it.
CDM ~ Wrong again! I have repeatedly pointed out my past disagreements with George Bush's policies...particularly his failure to reign in spending, and also his inclination to ignore the whole open border issue. I also hate the way he says, "nuculer" (intentionally spelled the way he says it, tnlib :0)) He tried too much to "set a new tone" in Washington when no one was interested in a new tone. He also should have spoken to the press more often, addressing the misconceptions about conservative policies. He should have put forth more effort to stop waste and fraud in governmental agencies and programs. In short, I didn't feel that he was conservative enough.
tnlib ~ I'm against profane attacks upon anyone - even libs! I did stop commenting here twice in the past, but frequently the misinformation being presented and the angry attacks on all conservatives become so over the top that I feel compelled to speak up. If you only want high-fives, then I will be happy to leave again. All I can say is, "you can dish it out, but you sure can't take it"...yet another figure of speech.
Tomcat: You didn't read the links or you misunderstood what I said.
They take money away from medicare reimbursements to make the bill "deficit neutral" then will use another bill "Doc Fix" to undo the cuts.
Also, collecting 10 years of taxes to pay for six years of coverage is a fiscal time bomb.
This scam makes Bernie Madoff look like a piker.
Google it.
Linda: Thanks for the back up!
Complaints Department Manager is right, I am more libertarian than conservative. While my moral ideology is decidedly rightwing Christian conservative, I do not believe the power of the state should be used to enforce anyone's morality.
I just wish we would stick to the enumerated power in the constitution.
Actually Linda, I'm not wrong just silly as I painted you with a broad brush like I've seen you do. Think of it as a...uh..."figure of speech" thing?
However, I don't see you as a Libertarian. That I am certain of.
Have a government approved day.
Silverfiddle, it turns out that has been debunked as a hoax. The buzz I'm hearing is that the memo originated in Boehner's office.
The buzz you heard must have been from some crack smokers.
I recommend you do some research at the CNN site or CBS or ABC, they've done a pretty good job playing it down the middle.
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