Today on CNN's State of the Union, NY congressman Jerry Nadler says the right wing is blaming ALL Muslims for the terrorist act on 9/11, "they are ascribing collective guilt on all Muslims".
NADLER: [W]hat they are saying essentially is how can you put a mosque there when, after all, Muslims attacked us on 9/11, and this is ripping open a wound? Well, the fallacy is that Al Qaeda attacked us. Islam did not attack us. Islam, like Christianity, like Judaism, like other religions, has many different people, some of whom regard other adherents of the religion as heretics of one sort or another. It is only insensitive if you regard Islam as the culprit, as opposed to Al Qaeda as the culprit. We were not attacked by all Muslims. And there were Muslims who were killed there, there were Muslims who were killed there. There were Muslims who ran in as first responders to help. And we cannot take any position like that.
“[O]bjecting to this mosque would be as objectionable if you wouldn’t object to a church or a synagogue in the same place because that’s blaming all Islam and you can’t blame an entire religion,” Nadler explained. He then ticked through three prominent examples of GOP hypocrisy on the “Ground Zero mosque”:
1) Nadler: “One, there is a mosque in the Pentagon, which is also hallowed ground. No one objects to that.” [Link]
2) Nadler: “Second, the people who want to build this facility, which is partially a mosque and partially a community center, have a mosque a few blocks away from there, which no one has objected to.” [Link]
3) Nadler: “I would take the sincerity of many of the Republican critics of this…if they were supporting, as Peter is, but very few other Republicans are, the bill to give health care coverage to the 9/11 heroes and responders which all but 12 Republicans voted against in the House last week.” [Link]
This argument and hysteria has gotten so out of hand and so heated with rage and hatred from Americans who are not thinking with their brains, but with their hearts. They are WRONG in their arguments. It's turned into a political fight and that is WRONG. The right loves putting the blame on President Obama and even accusing him of planning this whole fight. If righties don't like being called insane then why do they act that way?? What they want to do is turn this country into White America. They cringe at the thought of minorities having the same rights as they have. States rights, let the states decide whether or not Muslims, blacks, Hispanics, Mexicans etc. shall have the same rights as white Americans. That's what the righties want. How embarrassing for our country!! Where is the Melting Pot this country was so proud to be called generations ago? What has happened to our nation?? Stop saying "give us our country back", nobody took your damn country!! You hateful bigots have turned your backs on our nation. You are the reason we have hate taking over!
56 comments:
What do we tell our American Muslim members of the military, who are fighting, getting wounded, or losing their lives in defense of FREEDOM*? The asterisk* stands for "freedom for all except the following".
As far as a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero....how many blocks can it be moved before the opponents give it an OK? Three blocks, four....10?
Maybe this has really become No Country For Old Men. And I just had that signature B-day a couple of months ago.
"An All White America" -- the republican utopia!
Spot on Sue... great job... this is so very true.. The "righties" hate anyone who isn't white and so called christian.. I say so called because the religion I grew up with, which is so far gone now, was love for all... Even our enemies. Now it is hate all who aren't like me, especially our enemies.
What do we tell our American Muslim members of the military.
Tell them not to let religion guide them like Nidal Hasan.
it's not just right wingers Sue . 54% of democrats are,70 percent of independents and 82% Republicans are against putting it there.
Not because they are Muslim,even though you like to say that just so you can play your race card and your bigot card.
How come you are against the Catholic church for calling homosexuality a sin yet you don't even mention how intolerant Islam is of it.
Using the argument that Muslims were killed there is irrelevant too because Islamic terrorists kill their own ,women and children.
You seem to forget that radicals have ties to Mosques like they did for 9/11 and the 1993 WTC bombing
By me too an American was able to go through a Mosques to get to a terror training camp.
The problem is they go to train for attacks here.
Lisa: What is your source for those statistics. Please don't quote Fox or Rasmussen.
EVERYONE ELSE: I've said several times that Lisa is one of several persons - or either she has multiple personalities. Whichever, they're all paid ho's.
Reasons? If you'll notice, the quality of writing (as well as the style) is significantly different from comment to comment.
Or, she's just bat shit crazy. Why else would she subject herself to the abuse she gets by repeatedly coming here? A normal person would quit after a couple of times of being slammed. Maybe she needs serious psychiatric help - maybe even institutionalized.
I'm going for the multiple personalities.
I love that point Hugh. The Muslim-Americans are our soldiers, our doctors, our neighborhood grocer and pharmacist, NOT our domestic terrorist. They are usually the conservatives in the bunch and even self-admittedly.
Jerry, they wish! LOL
Thanks Annette, the religious fanatics don't even know what the word christian stands for. They just hide behind it.
read the post again lisa, I said Americans because I know there are some on the left who oppose the mosque.
It is NOT irrelevant to say Muslims were murdered that day. Americans murder Americans. Radicals are connected to SOME mosques, and insane rightwingers are connected to some churches...So we don't build any mosques in America cuz you idiots think they will be training camps!! LOLOL! Guess we better not build any more churches cuz the religious fanatics want to destroy America!! Your arguments are hideously stupid so you better shut up or moderation will be back on.
Lisa you ignorant fool. We all click the email follow comments box. The comments you delete are in our in boxes.
Now be honest stupid. How many "Lisas" are there. The ones that were deleted weren't the one that left the comment on the board.
You're not pissing me off Lisas. I find calling your many selves behind one name theraputic. You're like a punching bag. And your IQ is even the same.
Oh yeah. White America. Bad rich people are a menace. So are bad Muslims and Christians and Jews and Wiccans and Buddhists and Zoroasters.
Sue and Truth 101 are good.
The Nadburgler is engaging in hyperbole. Of course not all Muslims were responsible for 9/11.
Every Muslim I have met in this country is a great American who is very happy to be here instead of the shit-smeared hell-hole they came from.
Sharia is incompatible with our constitutional form of government, so for this reason we should severely restrict muslim immigration.
Funny how the left screams about a rightwingchristiantheocracy, but turns dhimmi defender of a religion that kills homosexuals and subjugates women.
I haven't been keeping score, but I bet muzzie fundamentalists have cut more heads off and blown more shit up that christians...
Mr. lisa spewed without thinking,
Sharia is incompatible with our constitutional form of government, so for this reason we should severely restrict muslim immigration.
Funny how the left screams about a rightwingchristiantheocracy, but turns dhimmi defender of a religion that kills homosexuals and subjugates women.
I haven't been keeping score, but I bet muzzie fundamentalists have cut more heads off and blown more shit up that christians...
Jesuski W. Christ. How can someone be so misinformed, and not be ashamed? o you also comment on neurosurgery forums? you know just as much about neurosurgery as you display here about religion.
The first thing we'll take apart is the "Sharia is incompatible with..." bullshit. Tell me, would you favor strict surveillance of churches like the one John Hagee runs, where they openly talk of moving America to a "Ten Commandments" form of Government? Of course not-you'd immediately aver that "not ALL Christians think that way." Well, genius, guess what? The vast, vast majority of Muslims have no desire for Wahhabism or Sharia law. That comment is just stupid.
Now, let's finish dismantling your stupid comment by addressing the "I haven't been keeping score" bullshit. As it turns out, I HAVE been keeping score, and the most murderous terrorist organization on Earth today is an outfit operating in Uganda, DR Congo, the Central African Republic, and Sudan. This organization is known as the Lord's Resistance Army.
Would you care to guess what kind of a Government they advocate? It ain't Sharia. And their victims number in the MILLIONS (with tens of thousands DEAD.)
Leslie I have noticed the writing changes and they change even more when shes commenting at a conservatives blog. I think its a few people or its her and her 12 yr old daughter taking turns.
Truth 101 and Sue... GOOD Americans
SF, I never said I fiercely defend Islam and want our country to embrace the religion. It's a conservative mantra actually...free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of private property/what you can do on your private property. Remember Rand Paul and his speeches on that? You agreed with him.
So now what does that leave? the fact that Muslim terrorists killed 3,000 people(of all faiths)and our sympathies should come first. Are you in favor of protesting the mosque that's in the Pentagon? Muslims killed people there that day too, or did they.... I read somewhere there was no plane found, not a single piece of a plane. Did the government blow up the Pentagon themselves to make for a better argument to go to war?? Hmmmmm, something to ponder while the mosque/community center opens for business...
and the most murderous terrorist organization on Earth today is an outfit operating in Uganda, DR Congo, the Central African Republic, and Sudan. This organization is known as the Lord's Resistance Army.
thank you JR, that is very interesting. It'll give SF something to Google over today!
So you had to go to some obscure corner of the earth to find some violent non-Muslims? Congratulations!
And Jolly, I noticed you skirted the issue of Sharia in the US. Is it compatible with our constitution or not! Answer the question!
Do you stand for the rights of women, homosexuals, and atheists, Christians, Jews or not?
Pastor Hoagie can preach all he wants, as can any Imam or Christian Scientist, as long as they do not break the law.
You see a christian fundamentalist takeover behind every bush, but you are a tail-wagging dhimmi for Islam.
Your mind is blind.
The right wingnuts don't want an all white America. The right wingnuts love diversity and color, as long as their sheets are white with white stripes.
"Funny how the left screams about a rightwingchristiantheocracy, but turns dhimmi defender of a religion that kills homosexuals and subjugates women.
I haven't been keeping score, but I bet muzzie fundamentalists have cut more heads off and blown more shit up that christians..."
I think it's funny how a person who professes to deplore broad brushing and stereotyping seems to be one of the worst offenders.
Are you trying to say that (historically) Christians are more tolerant of religious dissent and diversity than Muslims?
The Crusades? The Thirty Year's War? The Inquisition? The English Civil War? The Mountain Meadows Massacre? The burning of the Ursuline convent in Boston? The Act of Religious Conscience that was granted to all crown colonies, except to "Papists"?
Those are just the appetizers....there are many, many more examples in our Western heritage of religious intolerance.
No one here is picking and defending one religion over another; there are aspects of Christianity that I find troubling, and of Islam even more so. But by adhering to a separation of church and state we have for the most part avoided many of the mistakes of past governments.
It's when we hear those voices of the religious Right speaking words of intolerance in the name of patriotism that I get nervous...and most other Americans should as well.
Hi Sue,
I blogged on this, and I included Nadler's comments in my comment section.
I've also included article by Josh Barro of NRO, which speaks intelligently and correctly to this issue. I urge everyone to read him.
SF: "I noticed you skirted the issue of Sharia in the US. Is it compatible with our constitution or not! Answer the question!"
I'm just wondering if people like SF get as nervous when they read about the Dominionists' desire to turn this country into a Christian theocracy.
For those who will not access the link:
Dominion Theology is a grouping of theological systems with the common belief that the law of God -as codified in the Bible - should exclusively govern society, to the exclusion of secular law, a view also known as theonomy. As of 2010[update] the most prominent modern formulation of Dominion Theology is Christian Reconstructionism, founded by R. J. Rushdoony in the 1970s. Reconstructionists themselves use the word dominionism to refer to their belief that Christians alone should control civil government, conducting it according to Biblical law. Social scientists have used the word "dominionism" to refer to adherence to Dominion Theology as well as to the influence in the broader Christian Right of ideas inspired by Dominion Theology. Although many authors have described such influence (particularly of Reconstructionism),full adherents to Reconstructionism are few and marginalized among conservative Christians.
Sharia, Dominionism: Quelle est la différence?
Shaw, I would guess that the difference is one is White and the other is Not.
"The Crusades? The Thirty Year's War? The Inquisition? The English Civil War? The Mountain Meadows Massacre? The burning of the Ursuline convent in Boston? The Act of Religious Conscience that was granted to all crown colonies, except to "Papists"?"
Fortunately we have moved forward from that. You are justifying today's terror attacks to those of history? Welcome to 2010 .
Everyone has a right to pray as they wish,even Obama thinks the Arab call to prayer is the prettiest sound in the world.
Praying is one thing but there is a difference between a religion and a culture governed by a religion.
In America we have rules of separation of church and state.
You know a big issue for the liberals.
Jesus Lisa. You say you're for separation of church and state but you want the state to tell a religious group it can't build where it wants to.
Do you ever get tired of being as stupid and hypocritical as you are. Or as I suspect, you're just too stupid to notice how stupid you are.
There's still time to get with Beck and your other masters to come up with a reply Lisa. Unless you want to take the Silverfiddle route and just retype what I said cause you're too stupid to think of something yourself.
I never saw a bunch of people advocate so much for freedom of religion before since the proposal of this Mosque.
Did you know that Rauf took alot of his radical statements off his website since this started?
This isn't about religion. for the umpteenth time.
Blogger Sue said...
lisa just spoke to what Shaw said. Read it carefully lisa, you are called a Dominion Theologists?? If not then why are you here arguing religion??
Muslims are not in our country to take it over and turn us into an Islamic state. If you believe that then you are also a birther, and believe Obama is a Muslim out to destroy our country and ALL of civilization as we know it!!! SHEEEEEEESH!!!!!!! If you are that insane I don't want your stupid comments here anymore.
August 16, 2010 1:05 PM
On RN's blog, Pam and the rest of his crowd made it clear, that by simply being Muslim made them guilty. This attitude is common among Republicans and conservatives. Sadly.
That same reasoning (if you can call it that) makes all Christians guilty of the Oklahoma City bombing.
Jerry Tim McVeigh denounced Christianity. He did not bomb them in the name of religion unlike the hundreds of terror attacks around the world that have been committed in the name of Islam.
Specifically the 2 WTC bombings right near where they want to put a 13 story Mosque. You know because it has to be grandiose.
"That same reasoning (if you can call it that) makes all Christians guilty of the Oklahoma City bombing."
You know what? This sucks.
The Christians blamed the Jews for killing Jesus Christ. Remember?
And that lead directly to the Holocaust.
When are we going to stop the f**king madness of placing collective religious guilt on the many for the crimes of the few?????
This center will create this kind of counter momentum which will amplify the voices of the moderate Muslims. If we have to defeat the extremists, Muslims have to be leading that effort.
- Daisy Khan
The building that will house the mosque is an old department store. It's not being built to be grandiose, moron...
When are we going to stop the f**king madness of placing collective religious guilt on the many for the crimes of the few?????
I'd say it's more than a few
No Anon, you are fucking wrong. It is a few.
a few is three
Dhimmis are flexible...
When are we going to stop the f**king madness of placing collective religious guilt on the many for the crimes of the few?????--SK
I'd say it's more than a few--Anonymous
Thee are 1 billion Muslims. It is a few. Anonymous seems to be mathematically challenged.
Shall we blame all Christians for what Christian Germans allowed and participated in during the slaughter of the Jews? Shall we blame all southern Baptists for the torture and lynchings of African-Americans in our not too distant past?
Again people like Anonymous have conveniently short memories of how murderous Christians have been in their past.
If a child sex offender perpetrates his or her crime repeatedly in a given neighborhood, should a Catholic church or school not be built there?
If this question is absurd (it's meant to be absurd, by the way...), then so is the debate over whether a Mosque can be built near Ground Zero.
I tend to agree with those who say it would violate our constitution, or at least its spirit, by prohibiting the construction at that site, although there are good examples of buildings being prohibited in Gettysburg and other historical areas.
I think this is a needless provocation. If they want to build bridges with people skeptical of their intent, this is a poor way to do it.
I think it was Michael Medved who used the example of some nuns who build a Christian shrine next to Auschwitz, with noble intentions. Pope John Paul ordered them to remove it. It didn't belong there.
Only time will tell if this is a "victory mosque" (google Hagia Sophia) or truly a cultural outreach center.
We can argue all day who killed more people, but we need to do it with eyes wide open.
Look at Holland. Angry, agitating Muslims are destroying the freedom and character of that beautiful, classically liberal country.
Again people like Anonymous have conveniently short memories of how murderous Christians have been in their past.
key word "past"
Harry Reid is a biggot and a fear monger.
"Look at Holland. Angry, agitating Muslims are destroying the freedom and character of that beautiful, classically liberal country.'
No they are sensitive and want to build bridges.Just ask Theo Van Geogh or maybe even the guys from South Park.
Sue....i broke my wrist sat. morning. im in lots of pain. i just read your post and you are spot on as usual. when i hear the right-wingers cry that they want their country back... i crack the fuck up. Who took it? Where did it go? lol... Those prejudiced assholes make me laugh. It's all boils down to "race". If it ain't white, it ain't right.
xoxo
Donna M
lisa and SF,
How exactly do you propose we live with our American Muslims?
That is the only relevant question. Not how France or Germany or the Netherlands deal with their Muslim populations.
We are not France--as so many conservative Americans tell us all, especially when that country did not support the Iraq War.
We are America. And we have a Constitution that protects and treats equally all American citizens.
When it comes to really difficult issues--building mosques, gay marriage, civil rights, for example--it has been my experience that conservatives want to run away from those guarantees because it doesn't suit their prejudices against certain Americans.
This whole controversy reinforces that experience.
BTW, SF, Holland isn't a "country."
Shaw you have made great points, thank you. The rightwingers are once again fearmongering. They think this mosque will be a shrine to all Muslims, including terrorists, for a takeover of America! LOL! That is their insane thinking. They think in terms of a sci-fi movie. They see this building that will house a floor for prayer as rising from the ashes of the twin towers and morphing into a death trap for Americans. Oooooooooohh!! It's a Muslim conspiracy and Obama is chief Muslim man out to destroy America!! Be Afraid, be very afraid!!
Even Joe Scarborough this morning said this is killing the right wing.....
I would not say Christians murdering Americans is the past anon. It happens all the time, need I say abortion doctors??
This all about bigotry, NOTHING ELSE!!
SF: With all due respect, I don't think you can really compare a downtown street in a Manhatten business district to Gettysburg, Williamsburg or any place that has been designated a national historic site by the Preservation Society. I don't think gentlemen's clubs, strip joints and betting parlors fall into that category.
As far as murder in the name of Christianity, let's take a look at Ariszona's Sheriff Arpaio.
Anonymous said...
Again people like Anonymous have conveniently short memories of how murderous Christians have been in their past.--SK
key word "past"
Sorry. No.
The last lynching in America occurred in the late 1960s. Hardly the "past."
In astronomical times that was a pico-second ago.
And more people were murdered by lynching by white Christians (almost 5,000) than died in the 9/11 tragedies.
No African-American community, then should allow a white Christian church anywhere near it?
That is the sort of hysterical, bigoted reasoning toward Muslims that is consuming this country, fueled mainly by conservatives and the propagandists at FAUX News.
Isn't it amazing that this small bit of real estate is dominating a news cycle for five days now, and forcing candidates with no discernible connection to the situation to declare "are you fer it, or agin it?"
Whatever your opinion on the center is, we can all agree on one thing; it's a classic example of the creation of a wedge issue.
Damn, the Republicans are so good at this!
Watch and learn, Dems.
Couldn't agree more - well said. I can't add anything to your post except to say I agree totally!
Shaw: Holland is a colloquial name for The Netherlands, but thank you for showing us all how smart you are. I used to live there.
I indeed want us to hold ourselves and others to the constitution, which I why I said what I said earlier.
You want to ignore the experience of other countries with these clitoris cutting, head chopping 7th century gay-hating misogynists? Go right ahead. It's a free country, for now.
Want confirmation of what I'm saying? Publicly dunk an image of mohammad in a jar of urine in front of a mosque as see how far you get.
Mr. lisa babbled,
You want to ignore the experience of other countries with these clitoris cutting, head chopping 7th century gay-hating misogynists? Go right ahead. It's a free country, for now.
I guess the LRA isn't example enough for you. But then I knew it wouldn't be. It's all true, them dirty brown Islamo-fascists is gon' string all the polite white folks up!
that's right SF, horrendous acts "by extremists" "in those faraway, bad, bad countries". Oh but wait, aren't we there helping those people build a democracy around those extremists? How stupid can we be??
The Muslim Americans live here because they love our democracy, our freedoms, out civility, but yet we treat these peaceful people like terrorists because the rightwing fuckoffs tell us they are!! There are hundreds of mosques around this country being terrorized as we speak, all in the name of Christianity! That is NOT my America! So for your party bigots, get it together we have had it!!!
Save me the indignation: I have actually worked with and for Muslims. I don't need the lecture.
As I said earlier, I have never had a bad experience with any Muslim in the US, and I believe the vast majority are here because they are tired of illiberal idiocy going in the the shit-holes they came from.
Noisy, militant activists can ruin it for everybody, just look at other countries.
And killing is always wrong, even that obscure group you mentioned that has done 1% of the violence that Muslims have.
Again, you can do the dhimmi dance all day long, just keep your eyes open.
Oh for Christ's sake (!) I made the first comment, hopefully mine will be the last.
I'm officially flip-flopping.
We'll keep peace in Our Great American Family and move the Imam and the Islamic community center out of that building....more on that in a few seconds.
And at that address of the would-be "Ground Zero Mosque", two blocks from where the WTC stood, we'll put in something more profitable....an attraction that will draw more people to lower Manhattan... like an adult private club, with a video section and "toys" available to the general public on the first floor.
That should keep some people happy, regardless of political ideology
And the Islamic community center? Move it across the river to Bayonne, NJ. Build it at the state park that houses the "Teardrop 9/11 Memorial", the gift from the Russian people to the United States. You know, the 9/11 Memorial that overlooks New York Harbor and The Statue of Liberty, stands 100 feet high, and few people on Planet Earth are aware of it's existence.
At least this way our Muslim brethren can visit the multi-million dollar memorial, because nobody else does.
Just stay on Route 440, and set your GPS....if you don't you'll end up in a US Army facility with more MP's than Kansas has corn.
See...problem solved.
Now wasn't that easy?
Serious question to all:
What do you think of Gov Paterson's efforts to mediate this dispute and try to have them build it in a different area of Manhattan?
I think it should not be allowed to be built anywhere here being it is getting funded by intolerant countries.
This debate points to many a decent arguments from both sides. However, the left appears to be either blissfully blind to the Koran and it's teachings or they don't care. In either case they should, and educating themselves in the dangers inherent in the teachings of the Koran might be a good start.
Stating the facts as they apply to Muslim history and Christian history is fair game and both religions are deserving of some fierce critism... The difference is Islam is still somewher between the 6th and 12th centuries.
There is no question but what the developers of the Ground Zero Mosque have the constitutional right to build their Mosque (so called community center)two locks from Ground Zero. No one with any knowledge of our Constitution and any sense at all would dispute that.
To do so however, would be a complete lack of sensitivity (a word the liberals love to use)and respect for the vast majority (about 70% or higher)of the American people.
The constitutional principals the liberal base their argument on is correct... cannopt be refuted. Nor should it. However, in this case I respectfully submit that by winning this battle the liberals and the Muslims may lose a great deal more than either stand to gain.
I will stand and proclaim it is the developers right to build where proposed. I will also state it is foolish to do so and in fact is damaging to their own self interests. Assuming of course their interests are honorable.
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