(1.) Perry isn't going to make it. He is hated by a man he can ill afford to have alienated from him, and it will cost him.
(2.) A vote for a Green is a vote for a Green. All of us need to reject the false, shackling "either/or" soup the parties have been feeding us. I saw how it could have gone back in 1992, when Perot looked very likely to carry the whole day-til he flaked and dropped out. Vote your conscience, whatever your conscience may be.
(3.) NEVER say "never." As circumstances change, attitudes can also change. The President has pissed me off plenty, but I have always said that there is still time for redemption. I still say it. If he spines up, and takes his case for both his jobs plan and his plan to end the gravy train of the freeloading rich to the American people, I will be listening.
thanks JR ;-)
![](http://www.blogger.com/img/blogger_logo_round_35.png "Will "take no prisoners" Hart"){kind=logo}
Here's Tom. "You stupid effing blank. You idiot. You effing child. Who told you you could work with men? You ferry. You company man. Ah, that's right, Williamson. I'm talking to you blankhead. I'm going to have your job. I'm going to talk to Mitch and Murry!" Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. That's not Tom. That's Ricky Roma, the Al Pacino character from "Glengarry Glen Ross". Frigging Tom, he actually thinks that he's Ricky Roma now, for Christ! Man, is this ever getting serious.
I totally agree with John. No surprise there. A vote for any third party is a vote for the Republicans just like it was when folks voted for Nader instead of Gore. Now, the stakes are much higher and even more perilous.
Didn't realize John had another blog. Talk about self-flagellation. Lordy mercy.
Jolly, you and I have already duked this out, and to know avail, but I do have one question: has a candidate who had to compete against a third party candidate taking significant votes from his camp ever won a presidential election?
Didn't these people learn anything from 2000? All the excuses for voting Green (or whatever) today applied just as well to voting Nader then. The country got Bush for eight years (and all the resulting messes we're still trying to recover from), whatever "message" the Naderites were trying to send was lost, and the Democratic party did not move to the left; on the contrary, the Naderites were resented for years for the debacle.
Never assume that the Republican nominee has no chance no matter what we do. The candidate of a major party always has some chance.
The next President will be either Obama or whoever the Republicans nominate. Those are the two options; there's no third possibility. Maybe that shouldn't be the situation, but that is the situation.
A NO vote or a vote for another candidate is not really a vote for the republican candidate. It is more like a half a vote.
For example, let's say we take 100 people and 52 of them vote for Obama and 48 vote for the republican. If 5 of those people decide to vote for the Green candidate instead of Obama, then the republican wins 48 to 47 (52-5).
However if only 2 people (instead of 5) switch their vote from Obama to the republican, they becomes tied at 50 - 50.
So, a vote either not cast or cast for a third party, changes the difference between Obama and the republican by 1 vote (Obama's vote count is 1 lower). A vote switched between Obama and the republican changes the difference by 2 votes (Obama's count is one lower and the republican count is one higher).
So, the question is:
Is voting for who you think is the best candidate but who cannot win better than voting for a candidate that supports some of your views, particularly when that vote will help the candidate who supports the fewest of your views?
Or put another way,
Is it worth 8 years of republican rule to not vote for Obama?
I forgot to check the "Email follow-up comments" box.
It's not worth it Jerry, not one bit. Even the Lefties who are happy some of the time but not 100% or even 75%, still need to look at the field, who is better than what we have? If you are a Democrat and believe one of the GOP candidates are better, then go for it, but like Infidel says, we are a 2 party nation so vote for R or D...AND please VOTE, don't stay home!!
A vote for a third party candidate has the same effect as not voting.
Didn't Ross Perot split the conservative/libertarian vote in 1992, thus ensuring a Clinton victory? The math is fairly simple.
That's a very stark assessment Leslie. Maybe the stakes are even higher and the consequences yet more perilous than they were in 2000. It's a difficult comparison at best. But imagine if there had been no war in either country, just a simpler police action or strong-arming in Afghanistan. Energy independence and sustainability coupled with the new, dreamed-of green economy replete with so many new jobs and industries under the leadership of Al Gore Jr. instead of the status quo and economic depression we have today? It makes me wonder if the mortgage crisis could have been averted. One thing's for sure, there's no going back.
Maybe the Bush presidency was partially repairable and could still be mitigated and ameliorated over time. A Perry or Romney presidency could prove fatal to our very civilization.
Right Wingers vote against what they see as enemies. Liberals want to vote their conscience, even if it empowers the worst enemies of democracy. There will be no more "fixing" the abuses of the Right. Cheney walks free. So will the next Cheney if we let him in office.
In a perfect world, we'd have more viable options than a two-party system in this country. Since we don't, disgruntled liberals have to realize voting Green could be disastrous for this country. When we hear someone talking sending a message to Obama and the Dems by voting Green, we have to remind them of what happened as a result of the 2000 election.
'Vote Green, Perry needs you. While putting Perry in office, will certainly “show” Obama, consider this:
Once Perry takes an office, he does not leave it. After eight years of Perry rule, the Supreme Court will be a Tea Party body.
Roe V. Wade will be overturned. You are putting God in the White House, and not the moderate God who mostly stones disrespectful virgins and smites babies, but otherwise stays out of our lives, no not Him. You are putting the God who wants to monitor every aspect of our lives in office and on the Supreme Court. This God even rejects His native language of Elizebethan English in favor of Tongues.
He babbles in Tongues. Perry listens and responds.
Obama is NOT completely conservative. He extended unemployment, tried to take us closer to Universal Healthcare, Rejected the AZ immigration laws, Extended START, Removed the stem cell research restrictions Bush had in place with an Executive Order, no less, rejected DOMA and repealed DADT.
Perry would have done none of these things. Obama is not the most effective liberal in history. He tries to compromise with those who will not compromise and he acts as if he is dealing with opponents who will. It is illogical.
Obama is making the exact same mistake Spock made. I am sure you already thought of that. While in command on some planet, this backward alien species was rocking his shuttlecraft back and forth and pounding on it or something. Even though the craft was built to withstand the pressure of reentry into the atmosphere of different planets, apparently, this could not be tolerated. It would destroy the craft. The species was dumber than a pack of wild dogs. They were virtually mindless. Spock reasoned that a mild show of force should be enough to stop them because it would be “illogical to stand against a superior enemy.” Of course, his show of force had no effect because wild dogs do not make decisions based on logic. Though we had to believe Spock was logical because he told us he was several times, his strategy was not logical. I think Obama is a fan of Star Trek.
So vote Green; vote Perry. Perry 2012 and beyond!'
I just came from reading a post from Shaw's blog, Progressive Eruptions and am sick to my stomach at the thought of a Republican win in 2012. Today's Republicans are not the Republicans your parents or grandparents voted for. The thought of one of the tea party candidates winning the White House should scare the shit out of every single Democrat in this country. Take a look at the conservative blogs and read the hate, it's beyond school yard hate, it's dangerous and is eating away the fabric of our nation! I've never seen anything like it, and NO, nothing the Left said about G W Bush compares, not by a long shot!! Calling Bush Chimpy DOES NOT COMPARE! We have another year to convince our liberal friends to stick by President Obama, we have a year to watch and listen to the GOP candidates... staying home or voting Green is not gonna stick it to Obama, it's gonna doom America....